The Wise in Middle Earth

It is said, according to lore in Minas Tirith, that Elrond was the wisest of Loremasters. Surely this title is better given to Gandalf, a messenger of Eru & great among the wise?

An example of Elrond's folly would have been to send an elf lord, such as Glorfindel, as part of the Nine Walkers, instead of Pippin. Wouldn't the hosts of Mordor be able to detect the power of an elf lord if he dared to enter?

Saruman is already accounted for as a fool for falling foul of the lure of the Ring. Sauron is very wise in most aspects of lore, but only from the point of view of mastering Middle Earth, which ultimately cost him his chance of ruling it.

Sam's suggestion of Frodo being the wisest is riddled with folly, made all the more clear as he is the most foolish of the 4 hobbits that went with the Company.

As for Galadriel, she relies greatly on forsight to makes decisions, which is a sign of weakness.

Tom Bombadil is a mystery among the Wise, since he makes no contribution to the causes in Middle Earth & cares of little beyond is own lands. All the more reason to accuse him of being foolish, a play thing which Tolkein threw into the novel for his own amusement only. He is a creature which makes no sense & serves no purpose in the novel.

[Quempel]

So are you asking who is the wisest of Middle Earth? What would constitute wise in Middle Earth?

I would have to say I agree with what you have said about Elrond. Of course the Elves of Middle Earth make me angry at times.

I am assuming we are not counting the Valar in this.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Just to be clear, you probably mean "wise" and not "The Wise", as they are often referred to, meaning mostly the members of the White Council (Frodo, Tom Bombadil and Sauron have never been in the Council ).

But it is different what you now imagine under the word "wise". From what you wrote, I understand you mean something like "who was the best in wisdom and making good decisions". In this, Gandalf could be mentioned as being very successful, however, I think that's not as true as it seems. Gandalf, as it is shown many times in the books, had the tendency to fail - for example, had Saruman been in his place, he would probably not have overlooked the Ring for 50 years as Gandalf did (the fact that the result was probably ultimately better than if he learned it too early is another thing). Gandalf is also often, and maybe too often, led by "pure luck" (as he himself says). Many times, it is not his own wisdom that accomplishes the goal - it is "chance, as we say in Middle-Earth" - so, the success is not of his doing, but mainly by the power that leads him.
If we speak just of the word "wise", Gandalf himself calls Saruman as being wiser than him, having more knowledge etc. I am sure Saruman was (after all, where would the name "Saruman the Wise" come from) more learned than Gandalf, which of course is the typical "difference between knowledge and wisdom" But I think at this point, and especially among the Wise (with capital W), the word "wise" means just this: learned. This speaks in favor of Elrond, who has been in Middle-Earth for quite some time and, though for example Galadriel was there longer than him (and she was also at Valinor), Elrond probably is more of the type of "sage", who knew a lot and studied the history, while Galadriel was more into the practical things (like creating Golden Woods, divining from mirrors and learning Khudzul).

Speaking of Tom Bombadil, he was never meant to be wise - Saruman would probably have the same words for him as he had for Radagast (very similar to what you said about him). Tom is not the one who would care of "big things", as is Treebeard, who, for example, also has knowledge he collected through the years.

So, in conclusion, if Elrond is called the wisest, I won't object. And if you insist that there is also the criterion of "using one's wisdom in choices that ultimately lead to success", then I say Galadriel. She has foreseen things, but (as with the Hebrew prophets, for example), her actions do not rely on merely divining the future, but also - and often more - in correct analysis of the present, and acting on it. Galadriel's results rely on her own wisdom, so all her successes are indeed hers (or at least from the look of it, we don't know to what scale there is "something else at work") - at least in comparison to Gandalf, who is led by "chance" far, far more than her. Now it's not to say, of course, if being led just by one's wisdom is the better way (and as we can see, Gandalf's results were very good), but as an answer to this question, this is it.

I would not call Galadriel the wisest judging from her performance in the Loth Lorien Cahpter of the LOTR. She contributes no useful advice to the Company at all beyond the obvious, & is more or less just another Bombadil.

As far as the Wise are concerned, I would only include loremasters in this, although others such as Aragorn could also be accounted for as being wise.

[Lalwendë]

It interests me that as a Professor at probably the world's greatest University, Tolkien made some very interesting points about knowledge and learning - the most prominent one being that knowledge is not the ultimate 'good'. You can see this in so many characters as has already been pointed out.

Saruman for one is extremely clever and possibly second only to Sauron in Ring Lore, but this same knowledge is also his downfall, as he cannot see that this very knowledge is also a temptation to try Ring making for himself, and to try mastering the One.

Gandalf is outwitted by Saruman, and though he gives sage advice to many, he often gets through by the skin of his teeth. Galadriel's wisdom is tempered by a flaw in that she wishes/d to be powerful. Treebeard is slow in making decisions. Tom isolates himself.

Those who do eventually show real wisdom are those who admit their failings and flaws, showing that Tolkien was possibly making a point that nobody should ever be too proud of their knowledge or intelligence as it's simply not possible for one person to know everything.

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Those who do eventually show real wisdom are those who admit their failings and flaws, showing that Tolkien was possibly making a point that nobody should ever be too proud of their knowledge or intelligence as it's simply not possible for one person to know everything.

It is the subtle application of knowledge which demonstrates wisdom, not knowledge by itself. Gandalf & Sauron were the masters of this, especially the former.

[Farael]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Those who do eventually show real wisdom are those who admit their failings and flaws, showing that Tolkien was possibly making a point that nobody should ever be too proud of their knowledge or intelligence as it's simply not possible for one person to know everything.

I would say that this statement probably defines "wisdom" the best, as opposed to "knowledge". Wisdom, to me, is an inherent property of the self while knowledge is a learned attribute. This means that, iif a "wise man" was bornn complete isolation from civilization, he will still be wise. However, his wisdom will be expressed in ways that are not the ones associated with wisdom in civilization, as he would not have the opportunity to acquire the knowledge that has been learned since the beginning of written history. His wisdom will probably be reflected in more practical ways as they involve with his own survival (after all, humans are social animals and a human isolated from civilization will be very hard pressed to survive)

Conversely, a "dumb" man (for absense of a better word) will still be dumb, even if he learns all there is to know about "lore". It is not WHAT he knows, but rather HOW he uses this knowledge. For example, Saruman was very knowledgeable, but he did not see that his path would ultimately lead to his own demise. Not only would trying to compete with Sauron for the Ring lead to a very angry and vengeful Sauron... but even if Saruman had succeeded, he would have ultimately succumbed to the Ring itself, which would have caused his undoing. He might have survived, but he would have become an unwitting slave to Sauron's will.

Therefore, according to my perspective, I would say that Elrond was wise indeed as not only he had knowledge, but he acted upon it in a sensible manner. Not only he made good choices, but he also listened to other people's suggestions (even if at first he did not want to do it, he DID send Pippin with the rest of the company. Not to mention that he meant to send Pippin back to warn The Shire about the impending evil... and it would've been a reasonable course of action, as we learn much later from The Scouring of The Shire)

Gandalf was also wise, he was very aware of his own strenghts and weaknesses and was able to "see the big picture" and understand the complexities of everything that was happening in Middle Earth. He is, in my opinion, Elrond's equal, as he seeks Elrond's advice and gives advice to him.

Finally, I would say that Frodo was also wise after a fashion. Certainly he was not knowledgeable, but he managed to achieve something that very few (if anyone else) would have. He did this through his realization of his own shortcomings, which lead him to lean on those who were willing to help him. Should he had been "wise" (note: sarcasm) as Saruman, he might have been to proud to accept help from Faramir, Sam or even Gollum (he might have had an ulterior motive, but without Gollum the Ring would have never been destroyed, and I don't mean the finger biting alone).

[LadyBrooke]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Those who do eventually show real wisdom are those who admit their failings and flaws, showing that Tolkien was possibly making a point that nobody should ever be too proud of their knowledge or intelligence as it's simply not possible for one person to know everything.

Just have to comment on this, in light of the fact that everybody seems to doubt Celeborn’s wisdom. (Yes, I am a Celeborn fangirl.)

If we believe this then Celeborn is indeed wise for being able to admit his mistakes. Unlike nearly every other elf in the books, who take ages to admit their mistakes, the second Galadriel points out his to him he admits it and apologizes. Certainly this is better than the ring-bearers who couldn’t destroy their rings even though Tolkien seems to believe they should have. It seems to me that to many fans, only the Noldor are considered as possible wise elves, even though they’re the ones that make 75% of the mistakes - Silmarils, kinslayings, rings. Galadriel is clearly not that wise to me - she thinks that she could have taken the one ring and used it. Besides Elwe and his descendants, do we see any really stupid actions by the Sindar on par with the Noldor’s mistakes?