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Old 06-09-2006, 10:23 PM   #1
Valandil
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Leaf Matter of choice

Hello everyone! This is my first thread start-up! Here's the topic: When the Fellowship stood before Lady Galadriel for the first time, each member felt "that he was offered a choice between a shadow full of fear that lay ahead, and something that he greatly desired." What do you think is the significance of this choice?
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Old 06-10-2006, 01:12 AM   #2
mormegil
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Sorry for the long quote

I think we need to establish this before it's discussed at any real length because many of the answers are in the books.

Quote:
'What did you blush for, Sam?' said Pippin. 'You soon broke down. Anyone would have thought you had a guilty conscience. I hope it was nothing worse than a wicked plot to steal one of my blankets.'

'I never thought no such thing,' answered Sam, in no mood for jest. 'If you want to know, I felt as if I hadn't got nothing on, and I didn't like it. She seemed to be looking inside me and asking me what I would do if she gave me the chance of lying back home to the Shire to a nice little hole with -- with a bit of garden of my own.'

'That's funny,' said Merry. 'Almost exactly what I felt myself; only, only well, I don't think I'll say any more,' he ended lamely.

All of them, it seemed, had fared alike: each had felt tht he was offered a choice between a shadow full of fear that lay ahead, and something that he greatly desired: clear before his mind it lay, and to get it he had only to turn aside from the road and leave the Quest and the war against Sauron to others.

--The Mirror Of Galadriel
I see here that it was a test of their true resolve. They have just passed through grief and anguish and now Galadriel can offer them what they most desire and to obtain it would be easy. How would we fare in a similar situation. I think Tolkien is attempting to illustrate that the road less travelled or often times the more difficult course is the choice best chosen.

I believe it can be inferred from the following quote that all save Boromir passed the test.

Quote:
'To me it seemed exceedingly strange,' said Borormir. 'Maybe it was only a test, and she thought to read our thoughts for her own good purpose; but almost I should have said that she was tempting us, and offering what she pretended to have the power to give. It need not be said that I refused to listen. The Men of Minas Tirith are true to their word.' But what he thought that the Lady had offered him Boromir did not tell.

--The Mirror Of Galadriel
Boromir's reaction, to me, demonstrates his giving in to the 'temptation' as he put it, though it should not be correctly attributed to Galadriel. Perhaps she was able to get to their sould and find what most would tempt them to turn back and offer it to them. Samwise, the stout hearted, was the only one who said with any certainty what it was he desire, and I believe he did because how simple and innocent his desire is. Others, such as Boromir obviously had a far more nefarious desire, specifically for the ring. Galadriel, in my opinion, offered the ring to Boromir but his promise to be true to his word was true in a sense that he would stick to the quest, that is what he gave his word on; however he knew that by staying on this quest an opportunity may present itself where he could take possesion of the ring.
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“I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.
"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”
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Old 06-10-2006, 08:57 PM   #3
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morm, excellent as usual. Now what Galadriel offered to Boromir we can't be sure about, because we aren't told. And certainly after Lorien a change went through Boromir. Prior to this, beside what happens at the Council Boromir had shown no pull towards the Ring. However, after Lorien we can tell it's affecting him, he's showing signs of nervousness (biting his nails) and he's questioning Frodo.
Quote:
"Boromir, O Boromir!" he cried. "What did she say to you, the Lady that dies not? What did she see? What woke in your heart then? Why went you eve to Laurelindorenan, and came not by your own road, upon the horses of Rohan riding home in the morning?"~The Window on the West
So, something happens to Boromir after Lorien, and I'm thinking it has to do with Galadriel, and Galadriel may actually have offered Boromir the Ring.

We later find out that Galadriel has also desired the Ring for a long time. And what's interesting is Boromir calls it "a test." Tolkien has referred to "test/trial" as when one has an oppurtunity of taking the Ring, do they are don't they. Galadriel "passed the test."
Quote:
It did not seem possible to Faramir that any one in Godnor could rival Boromir, heir of Denethor, Captain of the White Tower; and of like mind was Boromir. Yet it proved otherwise at the test.
Quote:
Galadriel, in my opinion, offered the ring to Boromir but his promise to be true to his word was true in a sense that he would stick to the quest, that is what he gave his word on; however he knew that by staying on this quest an opportunity may present itself where he could take possesion of the ring.~mormegil
The thing is is that Boromir did not give his word about staying with the quest. Remember, no one was bound to sticking with Frodo. Both Boromir and Aragorn were in the Fellowship because they were heading to Minas Tirith. But, what does make me think that Galadriel offered Boromir the Ring is as you point out "staying true to his word"...Not in the sense of staying with the Fellowship, but in the sense of protecting Frodo. There was no word keeping members of the Fellowship together, but while in the Fellowship there was the expectancy that the members were to do whatever they can to help Frodo. And of course that word would be broken (and he eventually does break it) if Boromir tried to take the Ring from Frodo.
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Old 06-10-2006, 09:49 PM   #4
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Could it be Tolkien trying to draw an analogy to Abraham and Isaac?

Can you sacrifice that which you want most?
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“I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.
"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”
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Old 06-11-2006, 06:32 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mormegil
Samwise, the stout hearted, was the only one who said with any certainty what it was he desire, and I believe he did because how simple and innocent his desire is.
Neither as simple, nor innocent, as first appears in my reckoning. I read Sam's exchange with Pippin with Sam not telling all. He was offered a nice little hobbit hole ~ with Rosy in it ~ for his very own. But the stoutheartedness saves him so that his dream does come true. But a minor point as pertains to this question.

Its significance? No less than the success or failure of the mission.

The implication seems to be that Galadriel is the one doing the tempting, but the notion of temptation comes from Boromir, by which he says more about himself than about Galadriel. Aragorn, not Boromir, speaks most truthfully and insightfully about Galadriel. She has not yet passed the test herself, but that does not make her a temptress. It seems to me that she is practicing the art of Osanwë, reading their thoughts and hearts and motives, and the reading thereof necessitates their awareness of what is in their hearts. I would suppose that she is aware of this "by-product", as it were; all the better for them to be aware of their own potential failings.

To have revealed to oneself the (perhaps ugly) truth about oneself is not the same as being tempted. In Boromir's case, he was unable to resist the temptation that was already in his heart, and his nailbiting is because he is now aware of that which was already there, as his owrds in the Council of Elrond show.
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Old 06-11-2006, 08:52 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elempi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morm
Samwise, the stout hearted, was the only one who said with any certainty what it was he desire, and I believe he did because how simple and innocent his desire is.
Neither as simple, nor innocent, as first appears in my reckoning. I read Sam's exchange with Pippin with Sam not telling all. He was offered a nice little hobbit hole ~ with Rosy in it ~ for his very own. But the stoutheartedness saves him so that his dream does come true. But a minor point as pertains to this question.

Its significance? No less than the success or failure of the mission.
Sam's desire becomes very significant a little later on when he gets to see into the mirror. IMO, I think it was relatively easier for Sam and perhaps Merry (because it was about the same desire) to deny Galadriel's offering because they knew or at least thought they knew that the Shire would always be there- the same- waiting for them. Also, we find out (Scourging of the Shire) that Rosie was there waiting for Sam.

The choice to stay with the quest or go back to that desire became hard for Sam when shown of its destruction. Sam was ready to just fly back right then and there. It was Galadriel who reminded him that to do so was to mean leaving Frodo. And Sam broke down.

*I apologize for no quotes, my books are still packed, if anyone wishes to post them feel free*
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