Read LotR before you die! - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

davem · 03-04-2006, 11:05 AM

http://books.guardian.co.uk/news/art...721526,00.html

Ok, LotR came third in the poll for World Book Day conducted by the Museum, Libraries and Archives Council (MLA) after To Kill a Mockingbird & the Bible, but its still a substantial result (imo). I wonder what this tells us?

Has Tolkien finally been accepted by the literary establishment, or has it always been up there, & we've just fallen for the Literati's narrow-mindedness, & adopted a defensive position?

Its certainly high praise. I'm ashamed to say I haven't read either of the two above it (& only five of the others on the list) - ok, I've read most of number two in various translations, but not the whole thing.

Considering the other books there I have to say it shows Tolkien is considered a major literary figure, in this country at least. But does it tell us anything more?

EDIT

I also wonder what they think people will get from LotR - why is it the third most important book we should read? Considering the other books on the list it seems it wasn't chosen simply for its entertainment value but that it has something to say. What, exactly, do they think it has to say, I wonder.

Child of the 7th Age · 03-04-2006, 11:23 AM

Davem,

I would voice one word of caution. This is a recommendation not from academics but librarians. Therefore, I don't think you can jump to the conclusion that Tolkien is now more accepted by the literary establishment. The two groups are not identical.

Incidentally, I'm a librarian by training. When jobs were so tight for medievalists, I went back and got a second master's and worked for a number of years in academic and university libraries. I loved it and actually found the people I worked with a breath of fresh air compared with the more "rarified" but (in my opinion) more self promoting literary and historical establishment.

Librarians are a unique group! Despite the common stereotype, my experience has been that they are far more likely to be nonconformists, willing to go off the beaten track. It doesn't surprise me that a librarians' group would be the one to put Tolkien on their list. Not only do they know something about the quality of a particular title, but they know what people are actually reading.

Believe me! I was a collection development specialist with oversight for the ordering in all the city libraries, and we ended up ordering tons of Tolkien, not because I loved it but because we all knew our readers loved it. There are some titles that a librarian selects with a grimace because, frankly, they are popular works that really have little merit. There was never any hesitation with Tolkien in this regard because obviously the books had great merit.

Just a side note, I concur with To Kill a Mockingbird. I've always felt that is one of the best books out there if you want to understand the American character--both the good and the bad. How interesting that this recommendation comes from a British group!

I have read a number of these title but will try to tackle Birdsong sometime soon.

P.S. It's interesting to note that a number of Tolkien scholars are librarians. The first names that come to mind are Hammond and his wife who are just coming out with all the new companions and guides.

davem · 03-04-2006, 11:54 AM

Child

I accept what you say about Librarians not being part of the literary establishment, but this isn't a poll of what's most popular among those who frequent their libraries (I accept that LotR would come near the top of that), but of what books they think people must read. After all, I don't see any books by Terry Pratchet, Catherine Cookson, Jeffrey Archer, Jackie Collins, et al.

So, if I went into my local library & asked for a recommendation, I can assume I would be told LotR after TKaM & the Bible (I'm assuming, maybe wrongly, that they're referring to the Authorised Version for the language as opposed to the message, as this is a literary poll not a religious one). I wonder what the reason is for this recommendation, & whether it is the same in all cases - are there different reasons, different 'messages' perceived by different librarians?

Lalwendë · 03-04-2006, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davem

Its certainly high praise. I'm ashamed to say I haven't read either of the two above it (& only five of the others on the list) - ok, I've read most of number two in various translations, but not the whole thing.

Well you can get reading because most of those on the list are on the bookshelves in the house right now...

I think Librarians are a pretty eclectic bunch of people, ranging from the academic (of which Philip Larkin was one) to the librarian in charge of the tiny local village library who might sometimes drive the mobile library and bring the old folks their favourite Cookson novels. And the librarians you might find in our own central library might look at you with a look of distrust if you asked them anything, as they are so used to having to shift drunks out who've merely come into the library for a sleep.

As such, the list is itself quite eclectic which I'm pleased to see; it includes both classics and modern fiction and the serious and the light-hearted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Child

P.S. It's interesting to note that a number of Tolkien scholars are librarians. The first names that come to mind are Hammond and his wife who are just coming out with all the new companions and guides.

I wonder if it is the wealth of detail which attracts librarians to Tolkien? Much of their working days must be given over to arranging, classifying and searching for items so I can well imagine the attraction to a writer who has filled his work with detail waiting to be 'arranged'.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 03-04-2006, 12:41 PM

All these polls are for is to stimulate discussion on books, and that's fine. It makes me yell to my mother about how To kill a mockingbird shouldn't be anywhere near the top.

I just can't see what it could possibly tell us. It's just a collection of popular books, sorted randomly (at least it might as well have been).

littlemanpoet · 03-04-2006, 05:00 PM

All Quite on the Western Front? I'll have to check that one out. Seems like it might be a rip-off of All Quiet on the Western Front, don't you think?

"Ja, Helmut, ve're on die Vestern Front hier."

"Quite, Heinz. Pass the ketchup."

But seriously folks.....

1. race and prejudice and coming of age
2. bedrock of western civilization
3. a revival of Germanic roots, as well as a good ripping yarn
4. a cautionary tale about power (which one could say about the 3 above it)
5. community versus isolation
6. gender relations in western society? (saw the film but never read the book)
7. class consciousness and breaking free of same
8. Quite. horrors of war. quite.
9. fodder for discussion of atheism versus theism? why the church is evil? :shrug:

I tried to be serious, honest. Each minor point above could be extended, of course, into its own treatise. Just my attempt at exposing what "they tell us".

03-04-2006, 11:05 AM	#1
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	Read LotR before you die! http://books.guardian.co.uk/news/art...721526,00.html Ok, LotR came third in the poll for World Book Day conducted by the Museum, Libraries and Archives Council (MLA) after To Kill a Mockingbird & the Bible, but its still a substantial result (imo). I wonder what this tells us? Has Tolkien finally been accepted by the literary establishment, or has it always been up there, & we've just fallen for the Literati's narrow-mindedness, & adopted a defensive position? Its certainly high praise. I'm ashamed to say I haven't read either of the two above it (& only five of the others on the list) - ok, I've read most of number two in various translations, but not the whole thing. Considering the other books there I have to say it shows Tolkien is considered a major literary figure, in this country at least. But does it tell us anything more? EDIT I also wonder what they think people will get from LotR - why is it the third most important book we should read? Considering the other books on the list it seems it wasn't chosen simply for its entertainment value but that it has something to say. What, exactly, do they think it has to say, I wonder. __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects." Last edited by davem; 03-04-2006 at 11:20 AM.

03-04-2006, 11:23 AM	#2
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	Davem, I would voice one word of caution. This is a recommendation not from academics but librarians. Therefore, I don't think you can jump to the conclusion that Tolkien is now more accepted by the literary establishment. The two groups are not identical. Incidentally, I'm a librarian by training. When jobs were so tight for medievalists, I went back and got a second master's and worked for a number of years in academic and university libraries. I loved it and actually found the people I worked with a breath of fresh air compared with the more "rarified" but (in my opinion) more self promoting literary and historical establishment. Librarians are a unique group! Despite the common stereotype, my experience has been that they are far more likely to be nonconformists, willing to go off the beaten track. It doesn't surprise me that a librarians' group would be the one to put Tolkien on their list. Not only do they know something about the quality of a particular title, but they know what people are actually reading. Believe me! I was a collection development specialist with oversight for the ordering in all the city libraries, and we ended up ordering tons of Tolkien, not because I loved it but because we all knew our readers loved it. There are some titles that a librarian selects with a grimace because, frankly, they are popular works that really have little merit. There was never any hesitation with Tolkien in this regard because obviously the books had great merit. Just a side note, I concur with To Kill a Mockingbird. I've always felt that is one of the best books out there if you want to understand the American character--both the good and the bad. How interesting that this recommendation comes from a British group! I have read a number of these title but will try to tackle Birdsong sometime soon. P.S. It's interesting to note that a number of Tolkien scholars are librarians. The first names that come to mind are Hammond and his wife who are just coming out with all the new companions and guides. __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote. Last edited by Child of the 7th Age; 03-04-2006 at 11:29 AM.

03-04-2006, 11:54 AM	#3
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	Child I accept what you say about Librarians not being part of the literary establishment, but this isn't a poll of what's most popular among those who frequent their libraries (I accept that LotR would come near the top of that), but of what books they think people must read. After all, I don't see any books by Terry Pratchet, Catherine Cookson, Jeffrey Archer, Jackie Collins, et al. So, if I went into my local library & asked for a recommendation, I can assume I would be told LotR after TKaM & the Bible (I'm assuming, maybe wrongly, that they're referring to the Authorised Version for the language as opposed to the message, as this is a literary poll not a religious one). I wonder what the reason is for this recommendation, & whether it is the same in all cases - are there different reasons, different 'messages' perceived by different librarians? __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."

03-04-2006, 12:41 PM	#5
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	All these polls are for is to stimulate discussion on books, and that's fine. It makes me yell to my mother about how To kill a mockingbird shouldn't be anywhere near the top. I just can't see what it could possibly tell us. It's just a collection of popular books, sorted randomly (at least it might as well have been). __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

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03-04-2006, 05:00 PM	#6
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	All Quite on the Western Front? I'll have to check that one out. Seems like it might be a rip-off of All Quiet on the Western Front, don't you think? "Ja, Helmut, ve're on die Vestern Front hier." "Quite, Heinz. Pass the ketchup." But seriously folks..... 1. race and prejudice and coming of age 2. bedrock of western civilization 3. a revival of Germanic roots, as well as a good ripping yarn 4. a cautionary tale about power (which one could say about the 3 above it) 5. community versus isolation 6. gender relations in western society? (saw the film but never read the book) 7. class consciousness and breaking free of same 8. Quite. horrors of war. quite. 9. fodder for discussion of atheism versus theism? why the church is evil? :shrug: I tried to be serious, honest. Each minor point above could be extended, of course, into its own treatise. Just my attempt at exposing what "they tell us".