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03-03-2006, 07:50 PM | #1 | |||||
Itinerant Songster
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LotR, an Edwardian Adventure Story?
Below is a rather "book reportish" summary of a book I've read twice. Feel free to skip and scan. I suggest, at the least, to check out the "characteristics of Edwardian adventure story" list, and the questions that follow at the end of this post. For those with a more literary bent and interest, I invite you to read this entire post.
------------------------ Jared Lobdell wrote a book called England and Always: Tolkien's World of the Rings, published by Wm. B. Eerdmans, Grand Rapids, MI in 1981. Many of you may have missed this little treatise; I have it partly because I live in the town where it was published. Jared Lobdell was also the editor of The Tolkien Compass. So much for background. Lobdell offers an explanation for why LotR is so despised by modern critics, or what we have been calling the "literati". It should be said at the outset that such an explanation was not the primary motivation for his book. Lobdell's self professed motivation was to write a book that discusses the "four most obvious facts about the author's life"(vii). These are that: (1) Tolkien grew to manhood in the years before the Great War; (2) he was a philologist; (3) he was Roman Catholic; (4) LotR is one of the most successful works of modern times. Granted, these themes have been covered here and by books written since 1981 quite thoroughly. .... which makes Lobdell's differing perspective all that much more intriguing. To summarize, Lobdell says that Tolkien has written an Edwardian adventure story. ---------------------------- Characteristics of Edwardian adventure story:
------------------------ Examples Lobdell provides of Edwardian adventure stories and their authors:
I don't know a lot of these authors, but note them for the sake of completeness. Lobdell admits great dissimilarities between the many books and authors listed, but finds this intriguing connection, which he reiterates a number of times: Quote:
So what? Well, this: Quote:
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I'm tempted to ask if we have here stumbled upon "the six-pence", but that is a question for those who wish to discuss it on that (albeit related) thread: "What does the six-pence =?" ------------------- Now for the questions. Do you agree that LotR fits all or most of Lobdell's characteristics of the Edwardian mode? (such as?) Do you think that some of these Edwardian characteristics may perhaps reflect an issue that you have with LotR? (please relate) I wrote a marginal note by way of summary of a certain section in Lobdell's book that he is basically saying that Tolkien was the J.S. Bach of the Ewardian adventure story. What do you think of such a characterization? Feel free to discuss any other aspects of this introductory post, take issue with any assertions, et cetera. |
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03-04-2006, 12:24 PM | #2 |
A Mere Boggart
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Those characteristics of the 'Edwardian Adventure Story' could equally apply to the genre of Magic Realism, so I although they are applicable to the former genre, I think they can also be applied to others, and so maybe it is appropriate to discover what they too may be before classifying Tolkien in that genre.
I think where the 'Edwardian' moniker often springs from is that Tolkien's work at face value alone is like those well-known adventure stories, but as we know, it goes much deeper than being a simple adventure. At heart, Tolkien's work gives out some fundamentally modern messages - pessimism that the world will ever be free of war, the abuse of power, how the humblest members of society can play an important part, how Kings must 'earn' their respect, etc.... I think Tolkien also suffers somewhat because some cannot see beyond his religious beliefs and they cannot accept a writer who is religious as 'modern'. I also think that in contrast to the list the writer has presented us with, Tolkien's work is much less didactic - witness the huge amount of arguments we have on here about characters, motivations and messages. You just could not have that level of argument about say RL Stevenson or Rudyard Kipling. So, I think Tolkien's work does display some of those characteristics, and so it does share something with the Edwardian adventure story, but it is very different and much, much deeper.
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03-04-2006, 01:57 PM | #3 |
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From the list given we know that Tolkien had certainly read & been influenced by Haggard's She, & very probably by Chesterton's novels (I'm currently reading the Father Brown stories & I'm strongly reminded of Tolkien's fiction/philosophy:'All things are from God; & above all, reason & imagination & the great gifts of the mind. They are good in themselves; & we must not altogether forget their origin even in their perversion.', etc. He seems to have been familiar with 'Wind in the Willows' too, from comments in OFS.
I think its inevitable that he would have been influenced by the fiction that was around during his formative years, in terms of narrative structure & style. That he transcends it is beyond question, of course. There have been numerous analyses of the way Tolkien was influenced by ancient myths, but the influence on him of contemporary literature has received less attention. Certainly William Morris was a major influence, as was George MacDonald, & probably Lord Dunsany (in The Gods of Pegana pub 1905, there is a god called Limpang Tung, the god of mirth & melodious minstrels. 'Go out into the starry night, & Limpang Tung will dance with thee, who danced when the gods were young...Or sometimes walking through the dusk with steps unheard by men, in a form unseen by the people, Limpang Tung goeth abroad...' .http://www.harvestfields.ca/ebook/02/056/12.htm. When I first read that I couldn't help but be reminded of Tinfang Warble in the BoLT. Even the names sound similar. Hopefully in the forthcoming Tolkien Companion & Guide we'll get some info on what Tolkien read
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03-04-2006, 04:26 PM | #4 | ||||||
Itinerant Songster
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Mozart? A man with incredible talent, cut off in his prime by bad luck, composing his greatest music in the midst of great suffering, who showed every sign of breaking out into the Romantic movement ahead of Beethoven had he been given the years to do it. If the Baroque is comparable to the Edwardian adventure story, the Roccocco/Classical period was a turn away from that which is clearly directly comparable to For Whom the Bell Tolls, The Great Gatsby, The Grapes of Wrath, etc. So who from literature got his or her start in that mode, and would have broken out into Romantic myth making had s/he been given the chance? I haven't a clue. Orwell? Golding? Salieri? Someone who was very successful in his time, but forgotten soon after? How would I know? S/he's forgotten. |
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03-05-2006, 09:08 AM | #5 | |
A Mere Boggart
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The most famous writer would probably be Gabriel Garcia Marquez; Isabel Allende's House of the Spirits, a weird mix of politics, ghosts and girls born with green hair is one of my favourite books. There is also Angela Carter who explored fairy stories in much of her fiction (the film Company of Wolves is based on one of her short stories), taking a feminist perspective and creating incredible magic One of her characters may or may not have had wings - I wonder if fans debate the issue in the manner of the balrog wing debate. Salman Rushdie is sometimes classed in the genre but it has a really wide scope - sometimes Neil Gaiman is included, and I'd say Susanna Clarke's novel also strays into the territory. It is not secondary world fantasy but nor is it reality. Nature, history, enchantment, cruelty, ghosts, demons, eccentrics, almost anything goes as long as it adds to the sense of 'magic'.
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03-04-2006, 02:49 PM | #6 | |
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03-05-2006, 10:35 AM | #7 | ||
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I have to wonder about Lobdell's terms of reference. Here at the end you say he uses 1950 to 1975 to pinpoint adventure stories, but these years are not the Edwardian years, which are the years between Victoria's death and the start of The War to End All Wars, named after the reign of Edward VII (1901-1910). (Spot of English history for the Yankee chap. ) Lobdell's list omits writers of the time such as Joseph Conrad, who explored European colonialism in Africa, and of course D.H. Lawrence, the lad who had a bit of a fixation on some things. I suppose my thoughts about his list and how it pertains to Tollers has to do with merely picking out events and features of narrative. Perhaps a bit more social and cultural and political context might help place Lobdell's ideas in perspective? For instance, isn't the Titanic story the epitome of Edwardian conceits? All those rich upper deck types and the riff raff below and the end of the eras of privilege and majesty. Maybe his ideas might be brought out better, too, by thinking about the movie Chariots of Fire. Yes, I know this was a 1981 movie, but it was about what makes men run, what it means to be establishment, what is means to be English and although set in the 1924 Olympics, so many of the establishing moments are flashbacks to 1919 Oxford, the lads being the first class after the war. Is this the sort of thing you and Lobdell find in Tolkien? Quote:
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I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away. Last edited by Bęthberry; 03-05-2006 at 12:04 PM. Reason: Oh, I do so love correcting myself with the little red pencil. |
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03-05-2006, 11:10 AM | #8 |
Illustrious Ulair
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We also know that Tolkien was a fan of Science fiction - probably Wells (he refers to Morlocks in one of his letters), David Lindsay's A Voyage to Arturus (which he & Lewis admired) - & of ghost stories (he knew Barrie's Mary Rose), & was interested in time-travel (he was very familiar with Dunne's 'An Experiment with Time'). The very fact that he & Lewis tossed a coin to see which of them would write a Science Fiction story & which would write a time travel story certainly suggests that Tolkien was happy to do either.
The most interesting of the above is probably Lindsay's book, which is as far from an 'Edwardian' novel as one could imagine. His love of Eddison's works (despite his discomfort with their morality) is also interesting. Certainly (as Humphrey Carpenter noted) there is a certain similarity between the early parts of Fellowship & the stories of John Buchan, & its been pointed out that some of the descriptions in LotR of Mordor are very close to the descriptions of urban decay in The Old Curiosity Shop. In short, I don't think we can say LotR is an Edwardian novel - certainly it has a certain 'Edwardian' mood & style, but many other literary influences, both ancient & modern were there. The Leaf-mould of the mind is made up of many different things. |
03-05-2006, 01:33 PM | #9 | ||||
Itinerant Songster
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Thanks for the expansion, Lal. Have you read Beauty by Sherri Tepper? That and her other novels seem to fall within this class as well.
Bethberry, I'm glad I waited until a good month after rereading the book before I started this thread. I'm not saying I accept Lobdell's thesis at all wholeheartedly; rather, it makes one think, and on those grounds I thought I'd share it. Quote:
I daresay I agree, davem, that LotR surpasses the Edwardian adventure novel mode while partaking of many (if not all) of its elements. Lobdell himself discusses in ensuing chapters how it is that Tolkien does precisely this. For example: Quote:
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Thoughts? |
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03-05-2006, 01:55 PM | #10 | |
Illustrious Ulair
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03-05-2006, 02:05 PM | #11 |
Itinerant Songster
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I think that Lobdell is speaking not as an American but as a literary analyst. He is speaking particularly about style, not national origin. It is the 'preaching'; that is, the hoped for betterment of one's readers as opposed to telling a tale for sheer entertainment of the tale itself. I think you would agree that Tolkien had no intention of preaching to his audience, but telling a good story. This is what Lobdell meant by English versus non-English.
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03-19-2006, 07:31 AM | #12 |
Itinerant Songster
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Great addition to the thread, davem!
This is giving me excellent advice in regard to my writing pursuits, and I thank you. Most encouraging! The story, man, the story! |
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