Gollum and Eagles: Deux ex machina?

[Elu Ancalime]

I could not find another thread primarily about this.

A deux ex machina is usualy a person that comes unlooked for at the end of a literary work, that solves the problem and ends the conflict. Many times, the deux ex machina is an allegorical figure representing the Abrhamic God, or some other supernatural being. Wikipedia offers:

The term Deus ex machina (DAY-oos ex MAH-kee-nuh) literally means "the god comes from a crane" and refers to an unexpected, artificial, or improbable character, device, or event introduced suddenly in a work of fiction or drama to resolve a situation or untangle a plot. The phrase has been extended to refer to any resolution to a story which does not pay due regard to the story's internal logic and is so unlikely it challenges suspension of disbelief; allowing the author to conclude the story with an unlikely, but more palatable ending. In modern terms the Deus ex machina has also come to describe a person or thing that suddenly arrives and solves a seemingly insoluble difficulty. While in storytelling this might seem unfulfilling, in real life this type of figure might be welcome and heroic.

In the Lord of the Flies by William Golding, the Deux ex mahina is a Naval officer who shows up on the last page and a half of the book; his arrival solves the conflict between good and evil, for the boys that were stranded stop fighting amongst each other and have a emotional breakdown at the sight of their rescue.

In the Return of the King, Gollum might be considored a deux ex machina. He appears at the end of the Chapter 'Mount Doom', and solves the conflict by bringing the Ring to its end and succeeding where Frodo failed (even though it be moments afterwards). He does fit the standard that he comes when he should not be expected, and it is generally viewed as the climax. However, a deux ex machina is (by general) not shown until the very end of the book. Gollum may have ened the main problem, but then there is falling action, namely 'The Scouring of the Shire', which Gollum does not fix. Also, Gollum is not exactly 'complteley new to the plot.' Granted, I thought he was either dead or perhaps taken prisoner at Barad-dur. The notion of him coming back and jumping in so quickly is not looked for though.
Also, the Eagles are sometimes presented as a deux ex machina. I thought that Frodo and Sam would pass away in exhaustion. (BTW this is where the question about the Eagles taking the Ringbearer directly to Mordor comes in) But, the Ealges dont nessecarily end the conflict and problem. No offense to Frodo Im sure, but sending him to Orodruin and coming back wasnt the problem. The RIng needed to be destroyed and Sauron destroyed.

What do you think?
________
Mazda S Platform Picture

[Lalwendë]

Good question!

I wouldn't say Gollum fulfilled those criteria. In fact I think his reappearance at Mount Doom is integral to the whole story; he completes what Frodo was unable to complete and this situation leaves the reader with many questions to ask, ideas to consider. I also think that Gollum's end was one of the most perfect endings to any character in literature; it is not merely convenient that he did what he did, but entirely right. He disappears and then turns up right at the last moment, driven by the Ring, thus showing how far the bearers will go to keep possession of it. I also cannot see how Gollum could have gone on without the Ring, and in doing what he did, he seems to have also gained some kind of redemption.

Yes, it's a big shock, but it fits the logical pattern of the story perfectly. In the end, at Mount Doom, the culmination of all this effort, there are no heroes.

Now those Eagles, they are a different matter...

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Good question!

I wouldn't say Gollum fulfilled those criteria. In fact I think his reappearance at Mount Doom is integral to the whole story; he completes what Frodo was unable to complete and this situation leaves the reader with many questions to ask, ideas to consider. I also think that Gollum's end was one of the most perfect endings to any character in literature; it is not merely convenient that he did what he did, but entirely right. He disappears and then turns up right at the last moment, driven by the Ring, thus showing how far the bearers will go to keep possession of it. I also cannot see how Gollum could have gone on without the Ring, and in doing what he did, he seems to have also gained some kind of redemption.

Yes, it's a big shock, but it fits the logical pattern of the story perfectly. In the end, at Mount Doom, the culmination of all this effort, there are no heroes.

Now those Eagles, they are a different matter...

What Lal said.

[Nogrod]

Elu!

You seem to be addressing the one case, I myself am a bit dissatisfied with Tolkien. It sure would have been beautiful, if Sam and Frodo had died at the mount Doom! That would have been a story worth singing about (remember those recurrent mentionings by Sam about the food-ratios!), as Sam foretold it.

The whole ending sequence is a bit odd. First there is this "deus ex machina", the Eagles', to turn Frodo & Sam safe and sound back to Minas Tirith, and then all this stuff with the hobbits' making the better of Saruman. It's kind of an easy ending for a story that would have deserved a better one?

Another thing to be worth of a closer look, is Tolkien's going for a fatalistic solution. Like in Matrix - were the whole thing was made even more badly - the end-result is kind of "the way things have to be". Gandalf points out to the decision of Bilbo, not to kill Gollum, and Frodo takes on that: Gollum has a role to play in some larger picture, that is foretold already, even if he doesn't understand it quite yet. Then, while Frodo can't throw the Ring away, Gollum comes to finish the thing. Kind of "deus ex machina" that one too...

So everything's in order, as it will have to be, you just have to find out the reason to behave in a manner you should? But how about, if the world really is a bit more complicated place? Maybe the world is a place, where there are no easy solutions (black or white) and going strongly by your belief, really makes more damage than helps anyone?

[Farael]

Well, personally I think the Eagles may be a case of 'deux ex machina' as they had not been an integral part of the story (besides perhaps saving Gandalf from harm) and I can't recall knowing how they got there.

On the other hand, I strongly disagree with Gollum being anywhere near the definition. First of all, he is definetly a big part of the story. Frodo would have never made it to where he did if it wasn't because of Gollum, even though his betrayal. Then, we just don't know what happens to Gollum, but ithere is some mention of him by the two orcs that were looking for Frodo and Sam once they escape from the tower.

Originally Posted by RoTK

'All right, all right!' said the tracker. 'I'll say no more and go on thinking. But what's the black sneak got to do with it all? That gobbler with the flapping hands?'
'I don't know. Nothing, maybe. But he's up to no good, nosing around, I'll wager. Curse him! No sooner had he slipped us and run off than word came he's wanted alive, wanted quick.''Well, I hope they get him and put him through it,' growled the 241 tracker. 'He messed up the scent back there, pinching that cast-off mail-shirt that he found, and paddling all round the place before I could get there.'

So we know Gollum is still around and even more, he is still following Frodo (he messed up the scent, therefore he is probably following it)

Besides, in retrospective, it's quite evident that Gandalf knew that Gollum would have something to do with the destruction of the ring

Originally Posted by Fellowship

'Deserves it! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends. I have not much hope that Gollum can be cured before he dies, but there is a chance of it. And he is bound up with the fate of the Ring. My heart tells me that he has some part to play yet, for good or ill, before the end; and when that comes, the pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many--yours not least.

I must say I added the first part mostly because I love that quote *blushes* but there we see Gandalf 'hinting' that Gollum might yet do something. When he helps the hobbits get into Mordor you can say "ah, that was it" and then he turns up in the very end (of the Ring anyhow) and destroys it.... then you realize that was his destiny all along.

Having said that, I also agree with Lalwendë in her assesment of Gollum's end.

[Firefoot]

You seem to be addressing the one case, I myself am a bit dissatisfied with Tolkien. It sure would have been beautiful, if Sam and Frodo had died at the mount Doom! That would have been a story worth singing about.

I'm going to have to disagree with you here. Even if the Eagles may have been slightly out of place (more on that in a second), I definitely disagree about Sam and Frodo dying at Mt. Doom. Not only would this be extremely depressing, it would also be dissatisfying, at least to me. The story would not be complete. It would completely remove the topic of healing (or the lack thereof) and how you really can't go back, both for Sam and Frodo, but especially Frodo. It's one of those cases where dying would almost be the easier way out. The fact that they must go on and deal with it is one of the poignant things about the book.

Concerning the Eagles. Yes, I would say that they are definitely a case of Deus ex Machina. In some ways, they don't really 'fit.' Gwaihir, of course, has connections with Gandalf - are Eagles capable of osanwë? But if Frodo and Sam were to be saved, then there really doesn't seem to be much way around it. The circumstances were too dire and everyone else too far away, even if they could be able to rescue them. And although the Eagles could not have brought the Ring directly to Mordor because it would draw too much attention, there is already a battle going on (or about to go on when they start out), it's not like they're going to bring a lot of extra attention. The other thing that perhaps is not considered enough is that the Eagles might actually have come to aid in the battle (that question of osanwë again), and that their aid was just needed when Gandalf realized what was going on. So I suppose the case could be presented either way. Just like Gollum's death can be explained in other ways, so can the appearance of the Eagles.

And in a fantasy world that does have a God, and in a story where there are the themes of hope and mercy and healing, maybe the Eagles aren't so out of place after all.

[Nogrod]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Firefoot

I'm going to have to disagree with you here. Even if the Eagles may have been slightly out of place (more on that in a second), I definitely disagree about Sam and Frodo dying at Mt. Doom. Not only would this be extremely depressing, it would also be dissatisfying, at least to me. The story would not be complete. It would completely remove the topic of healing (or the lack thereof) and how you really can't go back, both for Sam and Frodo, but especially Frodo. It's one of those cases where dying would almost be the easier way out. The fact that they must go on and deal with it is one of the poignant things about the book.

Well, that's quite a familiar feeling. It sure is nice to see the Hobbits coming back to their home, as learned and experienced ones'. But enough of miracles? Sorry to oppose you Firefoot again, we should be more common-minded?

Concerning the Eagles. Yes, I would say that they are definitely a case of Deus ex Machina. In some ways, they don't really 'fit.' Gwaihir, of course, has connections with Gandalf - are Eagles capable of osanwë? But if Frodo and Sam were to be saved, then there really doesn't seem to be much way around it. The circumstances were too dire and everyone else too far away, even if they could be able to rescue them. And although the Eagles could not have brought the Ring directly to Mordor because it would draw too much attention, there is already a battle going on (or about to go on when they start out), it's not like they're going to bring a lot of extra attention. The other thing that perhaps is not considered enough is that the Eagles might actually have come to aid in the battle (that question of osanwë again), and that their aid was just needed when Gandalf realized what was going on. So I suppose the case could be presented either way. Just like Gollum's death can be explained in other ways, so can the appearance of the Eagles.

Anyhow, the eagles were there, and saved the day. So "deus ex machina"!

And in a fantasy world that does have a God, and in a story where there are the themes of hope and mercy and healing, maybe the Eagles aren't so out of place after all.

The question being all the time, whether the world is fatalistic or not...

[alatar]

Isn't the deus ex machina (used in Greek plays) the fall into Sammath Naur, in regards to Gollum? Don't some believe that it's the hand of Eru who gives him the nudge over the edge?

Today, being of different opinion, I think that Gollum is not nudged, and that Eru played no overt part in it. Gollum is a rogue, meaning, to me, the element of chaos. Good and evil can be balanced, yet every now and then the pot needs a good stir, some tension, to bring forth something new. Bilbo possessed the Ring, but did not follow Frodo. Sauron desired the Ring, yet did not search for it himself and thought more of war than just finding the Ring ("I'll crush the islands of Free Folk then continue the search."). Very unmoved - inactive - and very orderly and structured, respectively.

Gollum, though old, decimated, starving, tortured in mind and body, still goes after the Ring. He plays both sides, good and evil, and even has two personalities, but what joins them is the chaos.

What a show for Eru! It most likely sat on the edge of it's seat, waiting to see how the dice would come up. Frodo could not destroy the Ring; the Wise knew or at least suspected that. Would Sauron be able to get the Ring from Frodo? Surely he would - there's no betting on that outcome. So we have Gollum, who if he gets to Frodo sooner (i.e. with Shelob), the Dark Lord might recover the Ring and all is lost. If he gets to Frodo later, Frodo puts him down before he strikes (and still all is lost). but if Gollum goes after the Ring, like he does, when Frodo is still admiring himself, there's a chance that Gollum will succeed, lose, destroy the Ring (with or without destroying Frodo), etc. The outcome is less certain and therefore more interesting.

Ah chaos. Gollum could play either side, and more likely neither side, as he was neither good nor evil, but somewhat unique. The dice were tumbling, and how will they land?

Afterwards, when Gollum reclaims the Ring yet falls off the edge (chaos makes poor choices as well as better choices - at random), the game is over. Eru, pickled pink by the great show, sends the Eagles as a 'thank you' to the players Frodo and Sam.

Hope that this makes some sense.

Gods who know what will be must get bored.

[Firefoot]

It sure is nice to see the Hobbits coming back to their home, as learned and experienced ones'. But enough of miracles?

I guess I just don't get tired of the miracles. You think it's just going to be all right now - on the slopes of Mt. Doom, Frodo seems to be at peace, his burden is gone, and now the Eagles are coming - that means it's going to be all right, right? But it's not. It makes for that beautiful eucatastrophe which Tolkien brings out so well. And, at least in the view of the Shire hobbits, Frodo and Sam aren't as much the learned and experienced ones - Sam is some (okay, maybe a lot, but still not as much as M & P), but Frodo is mostly ignored. Mostly talking about Frodo here, I was meaning more of his healing process - more internal - than the new perceptions of him, if that makes sense.

This is probably why I've never had a problem with the Eagles. They might not 'fit' quite right in the story, but the miracles for me do not detract from the story, they add to it. This undoubtedly has much to do with my upbringing and faith, but there it is. The prospect that Sam's simple preserverence and hope that brought them out onto the mountain was fulfilled even beyond hope is very right to me. Even if it does take the Eagles to do it.

I haven't quite decided what I think that Gollum's fall is... a simple mistake or an act of Eru, it doesn't really matter to me. As Lalwende so well put it, it is so entirely right that whichever reason is correct (or a mixture of both) does not ultimately matter to me. It is just right.

I guess my point is that I wouldn't consider it so much fatalist as ever hopeful. It's that hope... faith... that everything will turn out right.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Firefoot

I guess I just don't get tired of the miracles. You think it's just going to be all right now - on the slopes of Mt. Doom, Frodo seems to be at peace, his burden is gone, and now the Eagles are coming - that means it's going to be all right, right? But it's not. It makes for that beautiful eucatastrophe which Tolkien brings out so well. And, at least in the view of the Shire hobbits, Frodo and Sam aren't as much the learned and experienced ones - Sam is some (okay, maybe a lot, but still not as much as M & P), but Frodo is mostly ignored. Mostly talking about Frodo here, I was meaning more of his healing process - more internal - than the new perceptions of him, if that makes sense.

So it's pure aesthetics'?

That is no bad ground to interpret a book, but there are other ways to do it also...

Love you, Firefoot! Making a good point anyways

[alatar]

The eagles were permitted, in my view, to enter the fray as the quest was finished. To show beforehand (excepting the dwarf and wizard airlift to the vales of Anduin, of course) would be breaking the rules. Eru, through Manwë, sends the Istari to counter Sauron. Surely if it wanted a faster result, though with little to no free will input from the ME dwellers, Eru could have permitted the Istari Uncloaked to be delivered to Sauron's porch via the Eagles. Sauron may be the match of one or two wizards, but not five at once, and not as wizened old men but as they are in Aman.

But where's the fun in that? That would be like me pre-chewing all of my children's food. Sure it would be fun, but they'd develop weak jaws, and exactly why would they need teeth? And when I'm gone...

So the Eagles get to show up after the residents of ME, acting together (the feint of Aragorn, the defense of the Mark by the ents, the Galadhrim and Bardings etc etc) along with Frodo, uproot the current big bad weed. They're a bonus. Frodo and Sam could die on Mount Doom, but they're still needed to start the cycle again, as we see in the Scouring, as most likely the Valar aren't sending any more help.

Sauron is defeated and the rules aren't broken.

[Nogrod]

[

QUOTE=alatar]Isn't the deus ex machina (used in Greek plays) the fall into Sammath Naur, in regards to Gollum? Don't some believe that it's the hand of Eru who gives him the nudge over the edge?

You just cling in to the point! And the question, whether Tolkien was just making a fatalistic decision, or found a way to ease Frodo up, remains...

Gollum, though old, decimated, starving, tortured in mind and body, still goes after the Ring. He plays both sides, good and evil, and even has two personalities, but what joins them is the chaos.

There are enough of mythologies to make this point. Like the Norwegian "Ginnungagap", there is the idea of chaos everywhere, as the starting position. The Babylonians' had the same story...

Ah chaos. Gollum could play either side, and more likely neither side, as he was neither good nor evil, but somewhat unique. The dice were tumbling, and how will they land?

But he really played a part! He was not a chance creature in the story, but an integral part of the whole history. He couldn't play "either side", but was destined to play the role he had to! He had no choice, as well as Frodo had no choice! They were all pawns at a greater play, which Tolkien had in his mind, creating this fatalistic universe of his?

EDIT: Cross-posted with Firefoot

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

You just cling in to the point! And the question, whether Tolkien was just making a fatalistic decision, or found a way to ease Frodo up, remains...

There are enough of mythologies to make this point. Like the Norwegian "Ginnungagap", there is the idea of chaos everywhere, as the starting position. The Babylonians' had the same story...

Sorry, but I'm just not getting your meaning, as sometimes my brain gets scrambled.

But he really played a part! He was not a chance creature in the story, but an integral part of the whole history. He couldn't play "either side", but was destined to play the role he had to! He had no choice, as well as Frodo had no choice! They were all pawns at a greater play, which Tolkien had in his mind, creating this fatalistic universe of his?

Again not exactly sure what you mean. The grass under their feet in Parth Galen, too, played a part, and also wasn't chance creations, I guess, from some perspective. And in regards to fatalism, if I understand you, Tolkien the author can make his marionettes dance higgity-piggity as he wishes (unlike myself who quickly loses control over whatever I start to write...like most of my posts ), but the characters therein, like us, think that they have free will.

Everyone has choices. I'm too tired for a butterfly effect world, as that's a bit silly, but I think that we and Frodo could and can decide our fates. Frodo could have let another stand forth at Rivendell, and then we'd be discussing the Eagles saving Chuck and Tom. Or, as Lush may prefer, Rosie and Daisy.

Or, in another view, Frodo made the choice to throw the Ring away along the journey, and shortly thereafter the Ring is recovered and sometime later, the everlasting Darkness covers all who could not flee. Now, assuming ME is our 'history,' this did not happen as we wouldn't be here. Or, it did, but not in this universe, as again we still have Sam and Frodo.

Have I muddled things enough?