The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-15-2005, 06:47 PM   #1
Gurthang
Sword of Spirit
 
Gurthang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Oh, I'm around.
Posts: 1,401
Gurthang has just left Hobbiton.
Pipe Compliment... or not?

At Bilbo's party, he says:

Quote:
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
~ FotR: Chapter 1
Now, at first glance, you don't really know what to get from this line. It's just plain fun to read or say out loud, and can be left at that if you like. But if you try to look closer, to see what it means, it seems to be a compliment; at least the first half is. But by looking even closer, it almost seems like it isn't a compliment.

The second breath of the sentence can be taken in two ways. Bilbo could be saying that most of the Hobbits he knows, he likes the correct amount or is being generous in how much the likes them. Or he is saying that there are some that he doesn't like as much as he should.

So, to put it graphically: M = majority, m = minority

Bilbo likes M >= what's fair
OR
Bilbo likes m < what's fair


OR (if you want to stretch your brain.)
Bilbo likes M >= what's fair > Bilbo likes m

So, what do you think it is: Compliment, not a compliment, or both at the same time?
__________________
I'm on a Mission from God.
Gurthang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2005, 06:55 PM   #2
Ainaserkewen
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Ainaserkewen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A cosmic waiting room
Posts: 651
Ainaserkewen has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via MSN to Ainaserkewen
Because I saw the movie first and Ian Holm says it a certain way I've always assumed it was a clever put down. But now that I examine it, the phrase could very well be a nice compliment!

Another thing no one will ever know.
__________________
Solus... I'm eating chicken again.
I ate chicken yesterday and the
day before... will I be eating
chicken again tomorrow? Why am I
always eating chicken?
Ainaserkewen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2005, 07:34 PM   #3
Márcolië Lamen
Wight
 
Márcolië Lamen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Nwy, land of the llamas
Posts: 109
Márcolië Lamen has just left Hobbiton.
Pipe

When I was reading that I always read it as a compliment, though I see how it could be read otherwise. I read it as they disearved more than he could give them, and while he couldn't know them well enough to like them enough, he realized they disearved more.
__________________
Here there be turtle-dragons
Márcolië Lamen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2005, 08:32 PM   #4
Glirdan
Energetic Essence
 
Glirdan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Where Lark Nor Eagle Ever Flew
Posts: 3,285
Glirdan is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
Send a message via MSN to Glirdan
I think it's probably meant to be taken both ways. The first part being a compliment, the secon, not to be. But, as Aina said:

Quote:
Another thing no one will ever know.
__________________
I'm going to buy you a kitty, I'm going to let you fall in love with the kitty, and one cold, winter night, I'm going to steal into your house and punch you in the face!
Fenris Wolf
Glirdan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2005, 09:33 PM   #5
Encaitare
Bittersweet Symphony
 
Encaitare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: On the jolly starship Enterprise
Posts: 1,814
Encaitare is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
I think it's a compliment cleverly disguised as an insult. Maybe Bilbo was hoping that only the cleverest ones (the ones most worthy of his compliments) would understand that.
Encaitare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2005, 09:46 PM   #6
Ainaserkewen
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Ainaserkewen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A cosmic waiting room
Posts: 651
Ainaserkewen has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via MSN to Ainaserkewen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Encaitare
I think it's a compliment cleverly disguised as an insult. Maybe Bilbo was hoping that only the cleverest ones (the ones most worthy of his compliments) would understand that.
That makes more sense than it should.
__________________
Solus... I'm eating chicken again.
I ate chicken yesterday and the
day before... will I be eating
chicken again tomorrow? Why am I
always eating chicken?
Ainaserkewen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2005, 09:55 PM   #7
Márcolië Lamen
Wight
 
Márcolië Lamen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Nwy, land of the llamas
Posts: 109
Márcolië Lamen has just left Hobbiton.
Silmaril

Quote:
Originally Posted by Encaitare
I think it's a compliment cleverly disguised as an insult. Maybe Bilbo was hoping that only the cleverest ones (the ones most worthy of his compliments) would understand that.
That makes an extreme amount of sense. Almost more than it should.
__________________
Here there be turtle-dragons
Márcolië Lamen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:43 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.