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09-08-2005, 04:02 PM | #1 |
Doubting Dwimmerlaik
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Heaven's basement
Posts: 2,466
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Belling the Ring
Note that the following is written without the Books, a net or possibly a clue. Anyway...
We own a dog. She's part Border Collie, meaning that she has psychological issues, but all and all, she's exactly what you would expect when you think dog. Long time ago my family *owned* a cat. I say owned meaning that we paid money for him, and we registered him with the county, and so we had documentation saying that we were his owners and were, in theory, responsible for his welfare. But, as you might well know, you don't own a cat. He stayed with us as it suited him. If the neighbors had put out a better spread, I think that we might not have seen him again. Cats are like that. You don't train them - they don't sit or stay - they play with you when it amuses them, and as far as they're concerned, you're there for their entertainment and pleasure. Unlike with 'man's best friend,' a relationship with a cat is like one where you're sitting by the phone all night, hoping that he/she will call, biting your nails as you know (though you're trying to hide it from yourself) that he/she is most likely out with someone else. The One Ring was a cat. I once thought that the One Ring was Sauron's, but more consideration makes me think that this just ain't so. It stayed with Sauron as it suited it, but was ready to changes hands when it saw a better owner. Consider:
_____ Anyway, all my ramblings above are just to suggest that the One Ring was not Sauron's, would have left him in a heartbeat for a better bearer, and was responsible in part for choosing its bearer and disposition.
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There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.
Last edited by alatar; 12-12-2007 at 03:32 PM. |
09-09-2005, 01:28 AM | #2 |
Alive without breath
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: On A Cold Wind To Valhalla
Posts: 5,912
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Applicability?
I think it’s well documented that Tolkien was not 'a cat person', but I'm not convinced that The Ring was a direct parody. As Tolkien says in the forward, "Many people mistake allegory for applicability". I think this is a case of applicability; The Ring can have many meanings to the reader and writer (I'm trying not to get into the canonicity argument here). But, yes, The Ring did have many 'cat-like' qualities as you said.
I cannot say that I think The Ring stayed with Sauron as it suited it. I think The Ring genuinely believed that Sauron was the ultimate master; going to others was just a way of trying to get back to him, through the weaker minded. I don't think The Ring would even let someone who wielded it overthrow Sauron, in a way; Sauron had The Ring under his spell... Well, that's how I read it...
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I think that if you want facts, then The Downer Newspaper is probably the place to go. I know! I read it once. THE PHANTOM AND ALIEN: The Legend of the Golden Bus Ticket... Last edited by Hookbill the Goomba; 09-09-2005 at 01:31 AM. Reason: Rats in the pipes |
09-09-2005, 03:18 AM | #3 | |
Corpus Cacophonous
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09-09-2005, 06:37 AM | #4 | ||
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
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As Alatar has said, the Ring does not need Sauron in order to exist (there's never any suggestion that the Ring could be destroyed by killing Sauron). How much the Ring & Sauron are one is another question. Certainly, in order to use the Ring one has to make oneself into another Sauron as much as one is made into another Sauron by the overwhelming power of the Ring (ie overwhelming once claimed). The Ring is the will of Sauron - or at least it was that to begin with - whether it changed & evolved into something more is another question. I wonder how much of an individual personality Sauron actually had by the end & how much he was 'simply' a 'force' a 'will to power'. (That was a bit too rambling - sorry) |
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09-09-2005, 07:04 AM | #5 | ||||
Corpus Cacophonous
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A green and pleasant land
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In may ways, the Ring was a "failsafe" device for Sauron. His will would be preserved within it and allow him ultimately to return for as long as it remained undestroyed. And since no one in Middle-earth was capable of destroying it, Sauron was in a "win-win" situation, even when it was not in his possession. No wonder it took an act of providence to defeat the whole set-up. So, no. I do not see the Ring as being like a cat (and I know exactly what you mean, alatar, having been "adopted" by one while at college). The Ring was not independent of Sauron, as a cat would be. Rather, it was part of him - an extension of him, as davem's imagery suggests. And it was not capable of choosing a different master. When separated from Sauron, all it could do was seek to adapt and to influence its surroundings and those around it in an effort to return to him. This was its "instinct", or "program" if you like. Then again, as Sauron was originally conceived as a cat, perhaps the Ring was part-cat after all. Edit: Quote:
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Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind! Last edited by The Saucepan Man; 09-09-2005 at 07:08 AM. |
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09-09-2005, 07:31 AM | #6 | |||
Wight
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 166
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The effect of Gandalf mastering the Ring and overcoming Sauron with it, would be the same to Sauron as when it were destroyed: its power would forever be lost to him: Quote:
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"For I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words Bother me." Dominus Anulorum TolkienGateway - large Tolkien encyclopedia. |
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09-09-2005, 07:02 AM | #7 | ||
Wight
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 166
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"For I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words Bother me." Dominus Anulorum TolkienGateway - large Tolkien encyclopedia. |
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09-09-2005, 07:28 AM | #8 | |
Cryptic Aura
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,997
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Of course one does not 'own' a cat. Cats are neither slaves nor property nor material objects. Nor do cats get into power-tripping plays of dominance. Cats are not possessive in their love. They don't impose their will or demand attention and affection. They respect their owner's agency. They are as pure an example of unselfish, unbinding love as one can find. Dogs, on the other hand, are into relationships of dominance and control, even if they appear to be the submissive partners. They, after all, often let their masters know when they want a walk. Yet it is the humans who are the ones who call 'stop' in the activities. This whole notion of 'training' reflects the deplorable and abysmal concept of hierarchy, dominance and control which is the very antithesis of real friendship and love. I would be very tempted to say the Ring was a dog were I not so aware of how cruelly people have usurpt animals to serve human designs. Or perhaps a horse. Yes, that might possibly fit. Sauron cracking his whip to demand more speed, more distance, more extension of control. No wonder Rohan was so greatly at risk.
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12-12-2007, 05:42 PM | #9 |
Wight
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 104
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Interesting theory alatar! I never thought of the ring, choosing it’s barer.
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12-12-2007, 07:24 PM | #10 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Facing the world's troubles with Christ's hope!
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How Dog's Think: Wow! You give me a home, you protect me, you feed me, and you put a roof over my head. You must be God!
How Cat's Think: Wow! You give me a home, you protect me, you feed me, and you put a roof over my head. I must be God! Very true Alatar, the Ring is like a cat.
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I heard the bells on Christmas Day. Their old, familiar carols play. And wild and sweet the words repeatof peace on earth, good-will to men! ~Henry Wadsworth Longfellow |
12-12-2007, 07:31 PM | #11 | |||||||
Wisest of the Noldor
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And now for some nitpicking!
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Note also that Sauron needs a road to get to the Chambers of Fire. So I don't think there's any reason to assume that he could have actually wielded the Ring while disembodied. |
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12-12-2007, 11:26 PM | #12 | |
Wisest of the Noldor
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Mind you, that was all just for the sake of argument. As regards your main point, alatar: yes, the Ring is much more like a cat than like a dog.
And I am a cat-lover. Cats vary, of course: Quote:
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12-14-2007, 12:37 PM | #13 | |||
Doubting Dwimmerlaik
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Heaven's basement
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Did he restart as a cockroach, then move up the ladder to a coney, then to a wolf, then to his somewhat humanoid form? Did he possess a body of another? Assume that he can shed flesh as he may have done at the Drowning. could he not don some other like a new shirt? Or assume that there's some other mechanism. Whichever - why, after going through all of the trouble of reincarnation - or whatever the process was - would he then not regrow Finger #10? Makes me have doubts. Sauron was a master of disinformation (See Denethor) and in reality might as well have been reformed as St. Nick - Santa Claus. He has black hands - gloves, is magical, is a giver of gifts (Annatar?) and purportedly can see all and know all. Doesn't he have Nine flying creatures at his beck and call? Hmmm... Quote:
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12-14-2007, 03:11 PM | #14 |
Princess of Skwerlz
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
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For some reason, Alatar, your amusing suggestions remind me of another disappearing and reappearing character created by another Oxford professor - Lewis Carroll's Cheshire Cat! Perhaps Sauron did it similarly? However, it wouldn't be his grin that remained longest, but his Eye - that explains all!
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'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...' |
12-14-2007, 06:53 PM | #15 | |||||
Wisest of the Noldor
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So you can make whatever theory you like about the process. Yours is... interesting: Quote:
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I think you'd better contact "The Downer" over this one. The public must be informed before it's too late! |
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