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08-01-2005, 02:59 AM | #1 |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Indonesia
Posts: 32
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When they die, where do they go?
When they die, where do they go?
The original title for this Thread was going to be “When Elves die, where do they go?” But I realized that I haven’t been just wondering where elves go when they die, but also where men and dwarves and hobbits go when they die. I am actually wondering where any species goes once they are dead. I am not talking about where they are buried, but where their soul goes. A lot of elves die even though they are immortal, right? Elves probably died while defending Lorian’s (sp?) borders. I assume that their soul goes to Valinor (sp?), but I am not sure. Many men died while defending Minis Tirith (sp?), where did their souls go? That is my question, many elves left over the western seas, I know where they went. But where is the resting place for the souls of Middle Earth?
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08-01-2005, 06:19 AM | #2 |
Pilgrim Soul
Join Date: May 2004
Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle...
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TPN, I guess you have not read the Silmarillion yet which explains much of this?
The Elves are bound to the world and may not truly die as long as it endures. If they are slain or die of grief their spirits pass to the Halls of Mandos in the Undying Lands where they wait for a length of time depending on the wrongs they committed before theiy may take up bodies again. If they refuse to go to Mandos they become wandering spirits. The fate of men is different and the Elves believe they pass beyond the circles of the world - that is why the parting of Elrond and Arwen is so hard, becasue they have no hope of meeting after death- and that Eru (God) has a purpose for them. Hobbits may be regarded as a variant of Men, I think. I think Dwarves think they return to the stone (they lay their dead in stone tombs not earth) but I am sure someone else will be able to confirm or deny this!!!! Thsi is a rough idea since Tolkien revised his thoughts on Elvish rebirth particularly several times - and I have neither the resources or the time (lunch break at work ) to explain now (and maybe not the skill at all!).. but it is a start...
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08-02-2005, 12:51 AM | #3 |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Indonesia
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Sorry, I have read the Silmarillion, but It was about a year ago and I don't remember it all. Thank you very much for that information. Anybdy else got something to say??
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"Covered by a love divine, Child of the risen Lord, To hear You say 'This ones mine', My heart is spoken for...." -MercyMe, Spoken For- |
08-02-2005, 08:59 AM | #4 |
Scion of The Faithful
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: The brink, where hope and despair are akin. [The Philippines]
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Re: Dwarven afterlife.
Aforetime it was held among the Elves in Middle-earth that dying the Dwarves return to the earth and the stone of which they were made; yet that is not their own belief. For they say that Aulë the Maker, whom they call Mahal, cares for them, and gathers them to Mandos in halls set apart; and that he declared to their Fathers of old that Ilúvatar will hallow them and give them a place among the Children in the end. . . . They also say that the Seven Fathers of the Dwarves return to live again in their own kin and to bear once more their ancient names . . .
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08-03-2005, 01:09 AM | #5 |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Thank you Nilpaurion, I guess that answers my question about the Dwarves. Anybody else?
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"Covered by a love divine, Child of the risen Lord, To hear You say 'This ones mine', My heart is spoken for...." -MercyMe, Spoken For- |
08-03-2005, 04:38 PM | #6 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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I haven't read the Silm in about a year, so correct me if I am wrong...
I admit that I never fully understood the death of elves. They go to the Undying Lands, which is also called Aman, beyond the Great Sea. But you can also sail there, right? So let's say Elladan and Elrohir (just for example ) are in a battle. Elrohir is slain and Elladan wishes to see him again. Can Elladan just sail to Aman and find his brother? This is how I understood it.
Quote:
Someone help me. Nim
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08-03-2005, 07:03 PM | #7 | ||
Dead Serious
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Quote:
But assuming that they chose Elvenkind, then Elladan COULD be reincarnated. Now, here's the catch: the decision to reincarnate Elves is left with Mandos (and Manwe). And if those Elves have not lived good enough lives, they are sunk. Feanor, to mention a specific case, because of the terrible evil of his deeds, will remain in Mandos until the end of Arda. However, others like Glorfindel and Finrod, who were as good of people in life as possible, and died selfless deaths, were both reincarnated quite soon after death- or so it is implied. In the case of an inbetween Elf (I believe Saeros has it said about him), he/she will remain in Mandos for a long time, but will eventually be reincarnated. Quote:
The catch is that they could not return to Middle-Earth. Not even the Elves could come back. It took a special act of the Valar to send the Istari (but they were Maiar anyway) in the Third Age. After the fall of Numenor, it became a one-way street. A one-way street, it is true, on which Men (indeed, all Mortals) didn't have PERMISSION to travel on, but which they COULD anyway. In the cases of the Ringbearers and Gimli, this was a VERY special permission granted under very unusual circumstances. And while it did permit them to the Undying Lands, it did not make them undying. They remained mortal, and sooner or later (although envisioning later is more fun, to my mind) they would, of their own nature, being restored to the natural state Eru had envisioned, pass away and leave the circles of this world.
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Last edited by Formendacil; 08-03-2005 at 11:04 PM. |
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