Luthien & Galadriel

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

Okay, the primary power of the Three Elven rings is to arrest change & decay but it is also stated that it greatly enhanced the natural powers of its bearers. Now, Galadriel, being described as an almost equal to Feanor (Unfinished Tales) and an already mighty & commanding stature when she was in Valinor... when she wears the Nenya, obviously she will become more powerful so would it suffice that she would level to the might of Luthien (who is half ainur) if not of Melian while wearing Nenya?

[Saurreg]

Don't know. Can't tell. Tolkien never devsied a power-o-meter to gauge the potency if his characters. However I should think there is a considerable difference between the power of Illuvatar's Children and that of the Ainur.

[Luthien_ Tinuviel]

I agree that the difference in power between a Maia or even half-Maia and an Elda is probably more significant than most people seem to think. And besides, the Elves of the Third Age needed Rings to reach that kind of power whereas the Maiar.. well.. ended up with Rings also. A few of them. But I think my point still stands.

And anyway, Lúthien's already beaten Galadriel to the Most-Joy-and-Most-Sorrow thing, and the Only-One-to-Ever-Move-Mandos thing...

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

Originally Posted by Luthien_ Tinuviel

I agree that the difference in power between a Maia or even half-Maia and an Elda is probably more significant than most people seem to think. And besides, the Elves of the Third Age needed Rings to reach that kind of power whereas the Maiar.. well.. ended up with Rings also. A few of them. But I think my point still stands.

And anyway, Lúthien's already beaten Galadriel to the Most-Joy-and-Most-Sorrow thing, and the Only-One-to-Ever-Move-Mandos thing...

Well I'm not talking about that. Remember that even the Elda can surpass the maiars (i.e. Feanor, Fingolfin). And Galadriel was melian's pupil & even before she came to ME, she was already accounted among the greatest in Valinor, even coming close to Feanor's stature.

[Mithalwen]

I really don't think it is a fair comparison. But I may be prejudiced because I have never found Luthien anything like as interesting as Galadriel. And Beren never really appealed - especially as I blame him for FInrod the beloved's death ...

We don't really see Galadriel try her power when the Eldar were at their peak in the elder days and by the time of LOTR, Galadriel had borne a child which depleted the strength of Elf women. Nevertheless she is undoubtedly the most inherently powerful of the ELdar remaining with or without the ring and I would say at least's Gandalf's equal before his encounter with the Balrog. With the ring she has the strength to repel all but Sauron himself and she is able to cast down Dol Guldur even after the RIng is destroyed.

Think of the power GLorfindel had - able to drive teh Nazgul into the river more or less unaided by the power within him - and Galadriel was surely more powerful than he in her own right...

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

I really don't think it is a fair comparison. But I may be prejudiced because I have never found Luthien anything like as interesting as Galadriel. And Beren never really appealed - especially as I blame him for FInrod the beloved's death ...

We don't really see Galadriel try her power when the Eldar were at their peak in the elder days and by the time of LOTR, Galadriel had borne a child which depleted the strength of Elf women. Nevertheless she is undoubtedly the most inherently powerful of the ELdar remaining with or without the ring and I would say at least's Gandalf's equal before his encounter with the Balrog. With the ring she has the strength to repel all but Sauron himself and she is able to cast down Dol Guldur even after the RIng is destroyed.

Think of the power GLorfindel had - able to drive teh Nazgul into the river more or less unaided by the power within him - and Galadriel was surely more powerful than he in her own right...

Yes... I seem to think so because she was quoted to be the greatest of Elven women, that would mean Luthien was removed from the picture because she became a mortal. But you see, before Luthien surrendered her immortality, she was on par (or almost) with Sauron during their confrontation at Tol Sirion & she also tore down it's walla & laid bare its pits. Same thing with Galadriel. I don't believe Sauron could've taken over Lothlorien or Galadriel so long as she had Nenya without Sauron's One Ring.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

IWe don't really see Galadriel try her power when the Eldar were at their peak in the elder days and by the time of LOTR, Galadriel had borne a child which depleted the strength of Elf women. Nevertheless she is undoubtedly the most inherently powerful of the ELdar remaining with or without the ring and I would say at least's Gandalf's equal before his encounter with the Balrog. With the ring she has the strength to repel all but Sauron himself and she is able to cast down Dol Guldur even after the RIng is destroyed.

Think of the power GLorfindel had - able to drive teh Nazgul into the river more or less unaided by the power within him - and Galadriel was surely more powerful than he in her own right...

Just a quick question, Mithalwen, as I must be on 'thick' today, but are you suggesting that childbirth diminished the strength of elven women? Is this stated somewhere in one of Tolkien's more recondite revisionary texts or are you making this deduction from what you have read?

[yavanna II]

Originally Posted by Gorthaur the Cruel

Well I'm not talking about that. Remember that even the Elda can surpass the maiars (i.e. Feanor, Fingolfin). And Galadriel was melian's pupil & even before she came to ME, she was already accounted among the greatest in Valinor, even coming close to Feanor's stature.

Yeah.
I think that Galadriel didn't really possess the kind of power Luthien had--although I'm pretty sure a few very gifted Elves could surpass the Maiar... look at Feanor... he made the Silmarilli... did the Maiar make their own light gems and stuff? Anyway, if Curufinwe/Feanaro was able to surpass the Maiar in those things, I'm pretty sure Galadriel has surpassed Luthien in that...