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12-30-2004, 10:31 AM | #1 | ||
Wight
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 126
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Oh No, Not Again!
Yes, just when you thought you were finally done with it, it keeps creeping back. I am speaking, of course, about the dreaded subject of Tom Bombadil (what? you were expecting Balrog wings?). Now, before I get started I should tell you that if you are sick of this topic and want nothing to do with it, then just don't participate. There is no need to post telling us how much you don't want to hear about it. It is equally unnecessary to say that Tolkien meant for Tom to be an enigma, I know, and I still want to discuss him.
Being relatively new to this forum I haven't had a chance to discuss Tom yet but I sifted through quite a few long threads, some of which were mostly nonsense . To my frustration much of what I had wanted to say had already been said , especially by burrahobbit, however I think I can still add something of my own. To business then. First let us consider this quote Quote:
Quote:
All of these things try to use fear, especially the Barrow Wight. In FotR the Hobbits are bothered by the nightly noises. Merry and Pippin are effected by the river and Old Man Willow but Sam is uneffected and Frodo has a dream of another sort. This, I think, is significant but I will not get into it here. Tom was not part of the Music of the Ainur, he is completely seperate from it as nothing else in the world is. Therefore he has no cares and consequently no fears, he does not care about the ring for the same reason that he has no fear, because all those things that were foretold by the Music have nothing to do with him. This is also the reason that the ring has no power over him. A note on Tom's power, none can resist the power of his words, what he says inevitabley happens. All of the inhabitants of the forest listened to him, the rain would not get him wet when he warded it off, and Frodo even handed over the ring to him. Tom is also a reminder to us not to take ourselves too seriously. Notice that I have not mentioned Goldberry, I hope to create a thread for her as well sometime soon but for now lets focus on Tom.
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If you would convince a man that he does wrong, do right. Men will believe what they see.~Henry David Thoreau |
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12-30-2004, 12:27 PM | #2 |
Laconic Loreman
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I am never tired of talking about this guy. Here's my take. It's fair to say that Bombadil is not Eru, since Eru never set foot on Middle-earth. Also, he can't be Eru, because Glorfindel suggests that Bombadil could be beaten. Assuming Tolkien sticks with religion, that God is the most powerful, and can't be beaten. My viewing is that Bombadil is Tolkien. Or Tolkien writing himself into the story. Consider some of these points...
He doesn't add too much to the story. He gives the hobbits history mostly, saying there were people before hobbits in the Shire, and there were people after. It's also interesting that he was there "for the first rain drop," he was there before the mountains, and the forests, and the rivers. He is referred to as "master." He has no cares for the ring, or any other problems outside of his realm. He's not tempted by the ring (one of the very few who are tempted, I'm assuming Eru wouldn't be tempted either). He has no care for the story that's unfolding in Middle-earth, still Bombadil does in his own way help out the hobbits. Gets them away from Old Man Willow and the Barrow-wright. But, as for the quest, and for the fate of Middle-earth he has no care. I think it's more of Tolkien putting his own thoughts, his own feelings in Bombadil. We know returning from the war Tolkien was distraught. He thought he was going to war to make England a better place, or the world a better place, but when he returned he found out things were only worse. Tolkien is also a satiric writer, Farmer Giles of Ham for instance, and he adds Boromir and the Hobbits with a bit of satire. Seeing Tolkien's feelings after the war, and looking at Bombadil how he has no care. Plus Bombadil is like a historian, he knows of things before even the mountains and etc. Seeing that, I think Tolkien is putting his own feelings into Bombadil, and therefor it's Tolkien writing himself into the story. Whether Tolkien did this intentionally, or even did it at all, is arguable, but that's my reading of it. Atleast that's my view, of course with Bombadil, I will expect to hear some debate. |
12-30-2004, 12:53 PM | #3 | |
Wight
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 126
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Boromir, you reminded me of something that I had meant to put into my first post and forgot. Though I do not own the Letters myself, I came across this quote in one of the other Bombadil threads.
Quote:
Your explanation of Tom being Tolkien, though probably true, is not enough for me. I feel the need to make him fit into Tolkien's mythology even though he was not really intended to fit. To learn those things about Middle Earth that not even Tolkien knew, so to speak.
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If you would convince a man that he does wrong, do right. Men will believe what they see.~Henry David Thoreau |
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12-30-2004, 03:31 PM | #4 |
Bittersweet Symphony
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: On the jolly starship Enterprise
Posts: 1,814
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Aw, by the title I thought this was a Hitchhiker's Guide thread!
Some good thoughts here, though. |
12-30-2004, 07:13 PM | #5 |
Itinerant Songster
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: The Edge of Faerie
Posts: 7,066
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I guess I'm satisfied with the idea that Tom is master of his little realm, that he is the place itself, in person (notice that I didn't say "personified"). I'm thinking that Tom and Goldberry are elemental persons. I do not say "spirits", as that raises more issues than it solves; same as "beings". He is the place, she is the riverdaughter. He has been there as long as there has been an Arda. She has been there as long as there has been a river.
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12-31-2004, 12:09 PM | #6 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Pennsylvania, WtR, passed Sarn Gebir: Above the rapids (1239 miles) BtR, passed Black Rider Stopping Place (31 miles)
Posts: 1,548
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two words: "DON'T PANIC!" (at least until this May, when a certain movie is due out).
-------------------------------------- One curious bit about Tom, which really argues against him being a Vala or Eru is the observation about getting Tom to take the ring at The Council of Elrond (interestingly, made by Glorfindel, not Elrond or Gandalf): Quote:
The theory of him being JRRT is interesting, and makes some sense, at least as a partial answer.
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Aure Entuluva! Last edited by Tuor of Gondolin; 12-31-2004 at 12:14 PM. |
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