PJ's Most Disagreable Mistakes (reasons why he is no longer aloud doing The Hobbit)

[lotrfreak90]

This thread is simply opinion based and has no intention of degrading the movies
In the first movie (i was greatly dissapointed) there was an obvious absence of tom bombadil, the old forest, and the barrow downs

and in the third (this really ticked me off) pj took out The Scouring of the Shire just because he didnt like that section of the book!

tell me what you think

[Encaitare]

and in the third (this really ticked me off) pj took out The Scouring of the Shire just because he didnt like that section of the book!

He didn't take it out because he didn't like it; he took it out because it would have created yet another ending (and a long one at that) for the movie. It would have been another subplot that was just too much for the non-book-fan crowd. Plus it would have made the movies too long than would have been sensible. I personally wouldn't have minded, but he was catering to a larger audience than just bookfans.

How could anyone not like the scouring of the Shire? Hobbits coming home and kicking butt? Sounds most triumphant to me!

[StarJewel]

Encaitare is right...non-book fans probably would not have enjoyed a longer movie than 3.5 hours. And, the movies were meant to make money for the studio, so it wouldnt really pay to cater to just hard-core Tolkien fans. Not that I would have been averse to that scene being in there....
Wha bugged me most was that the Houses of Healing was left out, but I heard that it was going to be in the Extended version, so I guess that's OK.

[Kuruharan]

I found the vicious ravaging suffered by Faramir to be highly off-putting. The sequence going to Osgiliath was particularly egregious.

[Evisse the Blue]

Hang on a second, PJ isn't doing The Hobbit anymore??

On topic: I saw War and Peace a few days ago (the orginal Russian version), whom everyone praised, and indeed everything was exactly how I imagined it, (characters, scenes, settings), almost to the point of boredom. It's like I was reading the book again, this time with a little more vivid mental pictures. War and Peace is one of my favourite books ever, and I was dissapointed that the movie stuck by the book. Hmm, I'm still pondering on that, but anyway, in light of this, I've come to appreciate LOTR, even with all its changes and mistakes even more. It's sure giving us something to talk about, if nothing else.

[Boromir88]

StarJewel and Encaitare:

Encaitare is right...non-book fans probably would not have enjoyed a longer movie than 3.5 hours.

Unless if that "inclusion" of the Scouring had Legolas in it some way (which it doesn't) then yes, I don't see non-book readers liking an extra 30 minutes-hr.

My most disagreeable thing with PJ is more of an exclusion, rather then a mistake he made. Eomer, now come on PJ give Eomer some love. I mean Rohan Soldier #35 get's more screen time then Eomer. It's like PJ just told Mr. Urban to stand behind a pole while filming. I don't know about you but Eomer seemed to me like an important part to LOTR, and an important part to Aragorn becoming king (as is being discussed in another thread, which I can't remember right now).

I'm dissappointed the PJ had to have elves at helm's deep and the dead army at Minas Tirith. The whole point of LOTR was the rise of men, the strength of men growing and other races fading away, didn't seem like that in the movies. PJ made it seem without elves, the men at helm's deep would have lost, and without the dead army the men of Minas Tirith would have lost.

Lastly, I want to see the EE so badly, because it has all sorts of added book scenes that I hope to enjoy. But, yes, if Saruman shoots fireballs out of his staff I will close my eyes.

Evisse:

Hmm, I'm still pondering on that, but anyway, in light of this, I've come to appreciate LOTR, even with all its changes and mistakes even more. It's sure giving us something to talk about, if nothing else.

Evisse, yes I agree, despite all my grumbles of what PJ could have done differently, I don't picture a director doing as good of a job as he did. Not even Tolkien (since I'm not too sure about Tolkien's directing skills). I would have to say actually my favorite "recent" movie maybe of the past 30 yrs is LOTR.

[Boromir88]

I can't get through the Council of Elrond in FOTR without cracking up laughing. First you have Elrond and his rageful talk about "I hate dwarves they hide in mountains, I hate men they are weak, heck I even hate my own race because I'm a old grumpy elf."

Then we have, the Council itself, where these random elves, men, and dwarves just happen to come from nowhere. Ok in the book the "councillers" are, Gandalf, Frodo, Bilbo, Gimli, Gloin, Legolas, Aragorn, Boromir, Elrond, Erestor, Glorfindel, Galdor (1 wizard, 2 hobbits, 2 dwarves, 2 men, 5 elves). In the movie, they replace Bilbo, with about 5 men, 5, dwarves, and 10 elves, and these people just happen to come no where, and there only point is to sit there, look interested, and nod their heads. Why? Why leave out Bilbo, and put in meaningless people who do nothing?

[Tuor of Gondolin]

While I liked much of the Moria bit there were two poor parts:
1) Moria falling apart, show's what happens when you have too much
deferred maintenance.
2) Orcs surround the Fellowship then are scared away by the balrog.
Why not just have the thousands of orcs finish the nine walkers off?

Of course PJ did it (especially Moria falling down) for his fetish for cinematic
pyrotechnics. One can imagine Gandalf dazzling the orcs with white light and
some sort of cutting through blinded orcs, but the surrounding bit was just
overdone, another example of tampering with the novel leading to an
inferior outcome.

But its remarkable how, when PJ keeps more to the book and adds to it
his cinematography skills, and generally excellent casting, the result is
far better then his plot "innovations", with a few good exceptions, such as
Sean Bean's Boromir, including his (added by scriptwriters?) Lorien
soliloquy.

[Son of Númenor]

There is a seemingly endless supply of criticisms that can be hurled at Jackson's movies - many are fair, many aren't; I personally didn't think many of the changes he made were for the better, but what really bugged me were lines like Legolas's, "Why am I not surprised?" (Fellowship of the Ring EE) and Aragorn's, "Let's hunt some orc!" Far too colloquial - modern movie clichés, really - to be used by characters like those two. PJ & Co., I think, did a poor job on many of the little things.

[Boromir88]

Tuor all I got to say FLAMING FIREBALLS SARUMAN! ROTK EE! lol.

[The Only Real Estel]

I know this is a thread where we're supposed to list all of PJ's mistakes, but I still have to bring up a few points in his defense (about a year ago, you'd never have caught me doing this):

Originally posted by Boromir88:

What's even more unbelievable ELVES! ELVES FROM LOTHLORIEN! FARTHER AWAY THEN GONDOR! Can make it to Helm's deep in a matter of hours, when it takes Aragorn and company days to cross the plains of Rohan and for all their speed Aragorn was nicknamed "wingfoot."

A matter of hours? The telepathic scene took place before Aragorn had even scene the army of Isengard, so that gives them roughly half a day, still not long-except-the telepathic scene implied (to me) that Galadriel & Elrond were talking at night. Should Elrond have made up his mind that night, the elves would've had all night & all of the next day to march, at the very least.

To continue, how about Theoden's line in Helm's Deep:

"Saruman's arm would have grown long indeed if he thinks he can reach us here." WTH, isn't Helm's Deep closer to Isengard then Edoras? Ya, I can see the rationale, "let's flee from Edoras because Saruman is going to attack us, so let's go even closer to him in Helm's Deep." PJ, should have just stuck with Theoden already willing to go to Helm's Deep and fight.

I don't think Theoden was talking about distances here. I believe he was referring to the strength of the hold, "Saruman's arm would have grown long indeed if he thinks he can reach is in here", is another way to put it.

Oh, and I almost forgot, with Elrond, one minute in Rivendell, and bam there you go in Dunharrow

Well, I know that if PJ would've dwelt on scenes showing Elrond on his way to Dunharrow I'd be giving him so flak for that, not to mention he wanted to keep the identity of the character a secret until he took of his hood. Also, Elrond was on a horse (presumably elven), so I'm sure he could travel as fast as he thougth necessary.

People will walk out of the movie still thinking that if they're in a safe place such as the Shire no harm will ever come to them

A good point, except I don't think anyone is dim-witted enough to think they live in a place as perfect & peaceful as the Shire. Although if you ever here of a place like that, let me know so I can get some flight tickets for next summer's vacation !

Then we have, the Council itself, where these random elves, men, and dwarves just happen to come from nowhere

Elrond opens the Council by mentioning that he "has called them here". Now, you can still wonder how he got the word out so fast, but I'm willing to bet that there were many days spent in Rivendell before the Council took place (see my point about showing Elrond's travel time).

Orcs surround the Fellowship then are scared away by the balrog.
Why not just have the thousands of orcs finish the nine walkers off?

Well, the orcs were scared to death of the Balrog (in the book Weapons & Warfare they suggest that they may have actually worshipped it), so I don't blame them for scattering. But still, I think you've got a legit point there, so I'll agree with you.

I think, did a poor job on many of the little things.

True. Or at least many of the little speech items that seemed out of place, like:

"Lets hunt some orc!" (Aragorn)

"Why doesn't that suprise me?" Legolas)

"She-elf" (Blackrider)

And others too. Naturally, I could point out a lot of little things that I thought he nailed, but I'll restrain myself on that one .


Don't get me wrong, I have issues with parts of the movie just like everyone else. But when I think there is a good explanation for it, I tend to defend it.