Must...Obey...Gremlin!

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

This thread shall concern itself with the treatment of Eomer son of Eomund by the soldiers of Rohan.

When Eomer is outlawed by Grima, he is punched and generally treated roughly by the soldiers who are obviously acting under the will of Grima, who has taken power.

In the book, of course, he was put in prison by Theoden under the guidance of Grima. However, let's stick to the film here.

Why on Middle-earth did the soldiers punch Eomer? I know, we'd all love to punch our boss but come on, this is Eomer we're talking about. All-round great guy and clearly loved by the people of Rohan. I don't think the soldiers should have been portrayed as so easy for Grima to work. I know Hama was shown as not being fond of Grima but I don't think this makes up for it. Especially considering the utterly ridiculous fight sequence when Gandalf needs to get to Theoden and Gorn, Legolas and Gimli start to destroy several of the hapless guards.

What I'm getting at here is this; I don't think the situation in Rohan was dealt with as sensitively as it should have been. Were the soldiers of the King really mindless drones staggering around Meduseld chanting "Must...Obey...Gremlin? I don't think so.

Am I nitpicking? Certainly. But get used to it, it's what I do!


*To note, just so there's absolutely no confusion, the Gremlin in question is Grima.*

[mark12_30]

Purely from a movie perspective:

I agree that it sounds ridiculous looking only at Grima-lin. But (in movie-terms) Theoden was **posessed** (in movie terms) by Saruman; Eomer protested that orcs roamed unopposed throughout the lands. What normal man-at-arms, what normal farmer, horse-herder, husband or father, would let orcs roam unopposed? Just how sleepy Rohan had become under Grima's 'counsel'? Too sleepy; but Grima(lin)'s counsel was undergirded by Saruman's 'sleeeep, my pretty, sleeeeep.' It took Gandalf to wake 'em up.

Purely from a movie perspective.

The book perspective is more powerful to me; one of Tolkien's major literary themes is the enduringly destructive power of a lie. In the book, whenever there is a Liar whether it be Morgoth or Saruman or Grima, there were still 'faithful' to be found (in Grima's case Hama, Eomer, others; ) nevertheless, Grima's whispers to the king were the sole poison that brought the nation to its ..... sleeeeep.

"THe tongue has the power of life and death..."

[Imladris]

My thoughts are based strictly from the movies.

I believe that it is illogical to assume that everybody loved and respected Eomer. To know that for certain one would have had to canvass the entire nation of Rohan, asking every person what they thought of Eomer. Therefore, it is logical to assume that there were certain people (Grima, for instance) who disliked Eomer and would have been extremely happy to have seen him punched and ill treated.

It is also logical to assume that Grima went around the troops finding those who could be easily swayed with lies (I do believe that the movie mentioned and showed to a small extent that Grima was a liar) or who already had a dislike for Eomer. Thus with poisoned words and lies, he could gradually build up his own little army around the king to deal with people like Eomer and Gandalf (remember, this is purely from the movie perspective). Having his own little army would make sure that King Theoden "stayed in line" as it were and didn't become conscious of the lies, etc.

Those are my speculations on the subject. It seems to me that is what traitors do: they go aroud finding people to agree with them. Then through intrigue and whatnot they try to come to power etc. Grima is, in a word, a traitor thus it is logical that he would do that from a movie perspective.

So no, Eomer. The soldiers were probably not mindless drones. They were probably just Grima's henchman -- as well as stuntman to provide the viewer with edge on their seats suspense! *cough*

As it is, of course, that's not what happened in the book. Grima poisoned the king, the soldiers disliked it but couldn't do anything about it, etc. etc. etc. But...this is a movie...not a book...

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Two brief points:

1) PJ's changes frequently make little sense, even in the 3 movies internal story logic, save to get more immdiate "action" and plot resolution. Consider the
biggest movie travesty, Gandalf (twice) mugging Denethor while Denethor's elite guards do nothing, the guards disinterest is ridiculous even forgetting this absurd treatment of Gandalf's character and the mandate of the Istari not to interfere or dominate Middle-earth peoples.

2) In the TTT, it's Wormtongue's thugs that are attacked by Leggy and friends,
Theoden's guards were prepared to whack Strider, Gimli, and Legolas until Hama restrained them.

[Meneltarmacil]

Now, I was just wondering...

Did these particular soldiers (Grima's former henchmen), when they saw what happened to Theoden and learned of the threat of Isengard, did they fight for Theoden at Helm's Deep?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

The movie does not tell us, but we can probably assume that they did fight at the Hornburg.

Tuor, I had thought that it was just Gamling who was restrained by Hama, purely because he was standing right next to him and it would be easy for him to stop him.

This easy corruption of the Rohirrim is hard for me to digest. From what we can gather of Eomer and the Rohirrim from the book, it seems that Eomer was a well-liked character. The appendices tell us that he was not an ambitious man, that he was not too interested in glory (a fault in some of Tolkien's warriors, and a trait which may not endear to the average soldier).

I think it is probable that the filmmakers had to give Grima some henchmen because otherwise, nothing would compel Eomer to leave Meduseld. In the book, of course, it was the King himself who ordered him to prison. I suppose this discussion turns again to why the Director invented this storyline instead of going by the book.