Regarding Gríma and Éowyn

[Encaitare]

I think that since the relationship between Gríma and Éowyn was more strongly displayed in the movies, I'm posting on the movie forum. I would like to know what other people's opinions are on a question I'm about to pose. That question is:

Would Gríma ever sink so low as to rape Éowyn?


I don't think he would, for the following reasons:

1. He is a coward and probably doesn't have the nerve to.
2. One of the things he loves the most about her is her rebellious and wild spirit, and to destroy her would be to destroy himself.
3. In his own strange way, he really does love her, and he would not take her unwilling-- he really wants her to love him all on her own.
4. He's not very physically strong anyway; she could probably overpower him if necessary.

I'd love to hear comments and arguments! Please respond and let me know what you all think!

~Encaitare

[ninlaith]

Grima and Eowyn are one of my favorite written couples from a novel. To me their relationship, actually his relationship with her, is the perfect example of wanting something you can't have. Having to watch that person everyday wallowing in your own self pity. I almost pity Grima. I probably would if he wasn't such a weasel.

[Boromir88]

Grima is much stronger (or maybe slyer) then a lot of people think. Talking about the books, Grima slit Saruman's throat, killing him. In the EE I understand Grima has some sort of a push/knock to end Saruman's life. But, as for Grima raping Eowyn? Ahhh the only way he would be able to overpower Eowyn would be if she was already dead.

[The Only Real Estel]

To me their relationship, actually his relationship with her, is the perfect example of wanting something you can't have

I wouldn't be suprised if not being able to have something he wanted would've been the motivation for him to take it anyway.

Ahhh the only way he would be able to overpower Eowyn would be if she was already dead

He's not very physically strong anyway; she could probably overpower him if necessary

Not necessarily. I don't think that Eowyn would've been able to stop him be means of her physical strength, Grima was stronger than her physically, in my opinion. Still, Eowyn probably could've at least escaped, if only because of her strong will. Whether Grima would ever have even attempted to rape her or not is really almost impossible to answer.

edit: corss-posting down to the minute with symestreem

[symestreem]

Originally Posted by The Only Real Estel

Not necessarily. I don't think that Eowyn would've been able to stop him be means of her physical strength, Grima was stronger than her physically, in my opinion. Still, Eowyn probably could've at least escaped, if only because of her strong will. Whether Grima would ever have even attempted to rape her or not is really almost impossible to answer.

Eowyn could wield a sword and shield. Grima hadn't fought for a long time. This gives her an edge up in terms of strength.
Of course, if she was raped, she would never admit it.

[The Only Real Estel]

Eowyn could wield a sword and shield. Grima hadn't fought for a long time. This gives her an edge up in terms of strength.

Grima kept up by doing hundreds of pushups.
Seriously, yes Eowyn could wield a sword & shield, but just because Grima hadn't fought for a long time does not necessarily give Eowyn an edge in strength. I know several girls who can wield a sword, whereas I-who have never tried wielding a sword-am much stronger than either of them.

[symestreem]

Originally Posted by Encaitare

2. One of the things he loves the most about her is her rebellious and wild spirit, and to destroy her would be to destroy himself.
~Encaitare

To rape her would not be to destroy her. She is strong. It would hurt her very much, and then she would kill him. If her brother, uncle, etc., etc., didn't do it first, but I rather think she would. Or, he could die at the hooves of a horse.

[Valier]

I agree with Encaitare on the point about him really loving her,I think in his heart Wormtongue wanted Eowyn to love him on her own,probably because everyone else despised him and he hoped that someone would love him.
Knowing Eowyn has strong character he probably hoped she would see through his malicious behavior and love him for the man he used to be.

[Eluchíl]

If he did really love her, then that means he had a redeemable quality inspite of being a backstabber, a traitor and a snake. Which could have been proven when he killed himself. He may have been a lowlife, but he had some sense about him, and dare say even some complex emotions other than what Saruman led him with.

[Thinlómien]

I would say that he loved her, not only wanted her. (Don't wait for an explanation, it's just the gut feeling, and the thought that there must be something good in Gríma even in his present condition.)

I would, as well, say that he wouldn't rape her. He would try to have her, of course, but on a more sophisticated and less brutal way.

He knew she didn't love him, he knew she despised him. I think he would maybe have poisoned her mind with his words, trying to make her think that the men of the House of Eorl were her enemies, because they "held her in a cage" and that way he would have maybe gained her appreciation, then her friendship and maybe then her love, or she would have (")realised(") that she was alone, and sought comfort from him, the only one who treated her as an equal and the only one she had anymore (if she had in her mind turned against the house of Eorl).

Another point, which I think, no one has yet mentioned. In somewhere deep buried in his heart, Gríma had some affection, or appreciation for the House of Eorl and King Théoden, and especially for Éowyn. He wouldn't ruin her: I agree the ones here who say that for him Éowyn was something too pure to touch without her agreement. (Her being a prize after Saruman had won is a different thing.) I'd say that he waited for the moment when her heart would turn to his (which maybe would have happened, if the men of The House of Eorl had continued not to understand her and thus she had become to believe the half-truths he told her).

The fear of Éomer, which Noxomanus mentioned, is also a good point in my opinion. Though Gríma maybe guessed, that Éowyn wouldn't tell her brother, but he couldn't be sure.

What comes to the physical fight between Gríma and Éowyn, I would say it would be tough. Gríma was weak for a man (and wasn't he described as old? Age lessens strength.) and Éowyn was strong for a woman. Still she was slender; I think strength wasn't her best ability as a warrior, skill and dexterity more probably. And, as said before, the sword-skills don't matter in a fight like the one we're talking about. If I had to say, which one would win, I would go for Éowyn. (And it's not the little feminist inside me - I swear )