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Old 03-12-2004, 11:32 AM   #1
Essex
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The importance of Tolkien's minor characters

One of the great things about Lord of the Rings is Tolkien’s use of minor characters inasmuch as they have important, sometimes critical, parts to play.

For example:

Gaffer Gamgee – (unwittingly) sends a Black Rider off to Buckleberry because he thought Sam and Frodo had already left Hobbiton. No Gaffer, no Lord of the Rings (well from page 82 onwards anyway!)

Fatty Bolger – stalls a number of Black Riders at Crickhowell, aiding Frodo’s escape from the Shire

Radagast the Brown – unwittingly helps to defeat Saruman’s plans by passing on Gandalf’s request to animals that he requires information at Isengard. Without this, Gandalf would have remained imprisoned in Orthanc, with dire consequences.

Tom Bombadil – hardly minor, but without him perhaps no Merry and Pippin, or at least no Numenorean Sword for Merry to help defeat the Witch King with.

Glorfindel and Asfaloth. What would have happened without the Elf to assist driving the black riders into the river, and Asfaloth to rush Frodo to Rivendell?

Erkenbrand. No Erkenbrand and his men, no victory at Helm’s Deep.

Ghan buri Ghan – No Ride of the Rohirrim, they would have been waylaid or stalled until it was too late to assist Gondor.

Beregond – Halts some of the guards’ attempts in bringing Faramir to a grissly end at Rath Dinen. Without him, the line of the Stewards may have come to a halt.

And, of course, Bill the Pony. How far could have Frodo got during his almost 2 week voyage from weathertop without Bill to carry him?

I've probably missed loads, but I put it to you that the forces of 'good' would not have suceeded if perhaps one or two of the minor characters above had not intervened?

What I'm trying to say is what an amazing, intricate, well thought out plot LOTR has.

Your thoughts?
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Old 03-12-2004, 12:31 PM   #2
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Eye

The soldier of Rohan that killed Grishnakh (sp?) was quite important. Just imagine if old Grishy had escaped with Merry and Pip as prisoners.

And the Barrow-Wight was important too. If he didn't capture the hobbits then Merry wouldn't have got his hands on that anti-ringwraith blade.

And also, I've always had a feeling that the fox in the Shire was of great importance.
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Old 03-12-2004, 01:00 PM   #3
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Ioreth is a minor character who plays an important role; without her memory of the old prophecy concerning the king as healer, and her spreading the rumours of his deeds in the Houses of Healing, who knows whether the citizens of Minas Tirith would have been so eager to accept Aragorn as king?
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And soon the word had gone out from the House that the king was indeed come among them, and after war he brought healing; and the news ran through the City.
This is one (rare) case where gossip definitely had a positive effect!
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Old 03-12-2004, 02:47 PM   #4
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How about Barliman Butterbur? He did a couple of things: he didn't send the letter, and if he had Frodo might have been almost to Rivendell by the time the Black Riders even got close to the Shire. He also encouraged Frodo to go to the Common Room and wouldn't let Aragorn in to see Frodo, and if he hadn't and had done these things Frodo probably wouldn't have exposed his invisibility to all those people.

Farmer Maggot is a good example too. He sends the Black Rider off to Crickhollow as well as later helping the Hobbits get to Bucklebury Ferry.

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Old 03-12-2004, 06:30 PM   #5
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Ahhh the scouring of the shire... anyhoo, don't forget Ellohir and Elladain (SP?)
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Old 03-13-2004, 05:40 AM   #6
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If Nob, Barliman Butterbur's lackey at The Prancing Pony had not gone outside looking for Merry and found two Ringwraiths stooping over his semi-conscious body, Merry would have been taken prisoner and who knows what effect this would have had on the quest to send the Ring to Mt Doom? He certainly would not have been there to help kill the Witch King. Also, if Nob had not given Sam that bag of apples, what else would Sam have used for target practice on Bill Ferny's head?

To The Phantom: I too have my suspicions about those foxes. The Hobbits and Aragorn also spotted one in the Chetwood. Some sort of fox conspiracy?
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Old 03-13-2004, 10:58 AM   #7
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Grishnakh and Ugluk: Technically not minor characters, but they only really appeared in one chapter. It at first seems like they are just a very annoying hindrance, separating Merry and Pippin from the dwarf/king/elf trio, but in fact they are rather crucial doing good. Obviously it was unintentional, but if they hadn't taken Merry and Pippin to the eaves of Fangorn and then, in the resulting fray, had they not fleed from orcs and horsemen into the forest itself, they never would've met Treebeard, no march of the ents, no fall of Isengard.
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Old 03-13-2004, 11:04 AM   #8
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That was in the movie Kransha, in the book, the ents decided to go to war at the ent moot.
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Old 03-13-2004, 11:33 AM   #9
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Oh, heavens to Illuvatar, you're right. Well, that's not what I meant exactly. I suppose I meant to say, Pippin and Merry wouldn't have been there. Still, despite my blasphemous book-to-movie confusion, Ugluk and Grishnakh still have their vile little roles to play. Let me see if I can rack my brain for other mild importances.

Here's one: Imrahil, Prince of Dol Amroth. On technicality, he is pretty minor, but has a role as well. If not for him and his cadre of knights, Faramir would be lying dead on Pelennor. With the whole "Amroth to Faramir" bit, he managed to rescue the future Steward of Gondor from the very jaws of orcy nasty death. Plus, the father of the person he saved didn't seem to appreciate it.
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Old 03-13-2004, 12:13 PM   #10
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Essex wrote:
Quote:
I've probably missed loads, but I put it to you that the forces of 'good' would not have suceeded if perhaps one or two of the minor characters above had not intervened?
Yes, I completely agree, the quest was so desperate that its success depended on the actions of lots of different characters. I think that these wellknown words of Galadriel, not only apply to the Fellowship, but to all the characters (major and minor) involved in the story :

Quote:
your Quest stands upon the edge of a knife. Stray but a little and it will fail, to the ruin of all

The Mirror of Galadriel; The Fellowship of the Ring
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Old 03-13-2004, 01:00 PM   #11
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Shield

How about Belladonna Took-Baggins. Her adventurous spirit came out in Bilbo to go on an adventure.
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Still it is probable that Bilbo, her only son, although he looked and behaved exactly like a second edition of his solid and comfortable father, got something a bit queer in his make-up from the Took side, something that only waited for a chance to come out.
and
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The Took side had won.
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Old 03-13-2004, 03:15 PM   #12
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Shagrat and Gorbg and their respective orcs: if Sam had not heard them discussing how Frodo wasn't dead, he would never have gone to save him and the quest would most likely have failed. Also, if they hadn't been figting in Minas Morgul, Sam would never have reached Frodo uncaptured or alive.

Gwaihir and Landroval: who would have saved Gandalf in Isengard? Who would have saved Frodo and Sam from the fires of the erupting Orordruin? i suppose this applies to eagles in general.

Elladan and Elrohir: who knows what dangerous orcs they killed out fighting when everybody else was feasting?

Bill Ferny and the squint eyed southener: i don't know if these are counted minor, but what would have happened if they had not told the Ringwraiths about Frodo's disappearing act? and who would they hae acquired a pony from?

Ahhhhh, the fox, the sweet fox.
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Old 03-13-2004, 07:07 PM   #13
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What about Elfhelm? If anyone else was leading the eored that Dernhelm joined, would she and Merry be allowed to ride to Pelennor?

Or Hama, who allowed Gandalf to keep his staff as he entered Meduseld?
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Old 03-13-2004, 07:49 PM   #14
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And also, I've always had a feeling that the fox in the Shire was of great importance
Me too

Ghan buri Ghan, Tom Bombadil, Goldberry, Haldir, Imrahil, the Warden-fellow at the Houses of Healing, Hama, Elfhelm(curse those tree roots!).
Come to think of it, I think alot of my favorite people could be considered "minor." Maybe that's what makes LOTR such a great book-Tolkien's supporting characters aren't just cardboard cutouts.
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Old 03-14-2004, 04:19 AM   #15
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Halbarad was minor-yet-important. He brought with him some of Aragorn's credentials for the Kingship (Arwen's banner), without those he'd not have been able to claim the throne.

Arwen's role in the books (not her inflated role in the movies) is relatively minor, though she also sends Aragorn some needed "king equiptment" by way of Galadriel, namely the brooch which gave him his name Elessar.

The Wood-Elf guards who took pity on Gollum and ended up letting him escape play a major role in the story, in that without them, no final drop over the edge at Mount Doom. Same goes for Haldir, Rumil, and Orophin at Lothlorien when they hesitate to kill an unidentified shadow in the trees.

Snowmane is another one. Without Theoden's Bane would Eowyn have stood up to the Witch King? Doubtful.

Sophia

PS. Eeek! I almost posted this as a new thread, not a new post! Thank goodness for the preview button!
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Old 03-15-2004, 08:09 AM   #16
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Thanks for your replies. And I thought my original list was pretty comprehensive!!! Your many additions have added further credence to the importance of 'minor' characters in Lord of the Rings.
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Old 03-16-2004, 11:57 AM   #17
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Pipe Others

Imrahil, yes very influential character. It was said only his knights of dol amroth and gandalf could withstand the nazgul shriek. Besides Boromir and Faramir he was probably the best leader Gondor had. They definately needed Imrahil for Boromir was dead and Faramir was injured.

Glorfindel, key character here as well, very powerful elf, Galadriel is the most powerful elf, and second would probably be Glorfindel.

Don't forget Elladan and Elrohir probably the best orc slayers in the 3rd age. Someone mentioned Bill the Pony, what about Bill Ferney, nasty person he was but without Bill Ferney no Bill the pony. Barliman Butterbur as well, jolly, fat, man with news about Gandalf and what was to be done next, would the hobbits of trusted Aragorn without Butterbur's note from Gandalf?
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Old 03-16-2004, 04:47 PM   #18
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Silmaril

Well, the only other minor characters I can think of is Sam's love interest Rosie Cotton and family. Without them, would the Shire have risen as fast? I don't think so. Plus, it wasn't just food and a comfy bed that kept Sam going to Mt. Doom and home again!!! And without her, who would have taken over bag end? The foxes were a little, um, stalking? I guess they count as minor characters too. And the moth that saved Gandalf. It was a moth wasn't it? Or a bird?
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Old 03-16-2004, 06:47 PM   #19
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We never get his name, but I thought the soldier of Rohan who ran to get water in his helmet to cleanse the stones when Wormtongue spat at Theodon's feet was very touching.

There were the elves who met Frodo and friends in the Shire... they sent messages to their friends to be on the lookout for Frodo and I think (my opinion) that is why Glorfindel was there when they needed him.

Deagol... if it wasn't for him the ring would never have been found, or at least it wouldn't have been found in such a way as to lead to such a wonderful story.
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Old 03-18-2004, 02:00 PM   #20
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i like this fox conspiracy! were they eyes of someone? or perhaps omens of something?
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Old 03-19-2004, 04:31 PM   #21
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Tolkien

Ahh, yes, how could we forget dear old Deagol. He did find the ring after all and set this whole adventure back in motion.

Hmmmmm, who else? Ah, yes, how about the ork capitan in Mordor? If he had not spotted Sam and Frodo on the side of the road and made them participate in the forced march of those so many miles, would Sam and Frodo been able to reach Mount Doom in time to save their friends? or even been able to reach Mount Doom at all?

Hmmm, I never even noticed the foxes. I guess I must read the books again. What a shame!!
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Old 03-21-2004, 02:13 PM   #22
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I think you are right. there are a few you missed. without the king of the dead, no aragorn at minas tirith. no ugluk and merry and pippin would have probably been killed by grishnak. and about shagrat and gorbg, if they hadn't fought over the mithril coat, Sam would not have gotten into Cirth ungol.

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Old 03-21-2004, 08:29 PM   #23
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Okay, this is going back to THE HOBBIT, but if the Dwarves and Bilbo hadn't got rained on and Fili and Kili hadn't been so slack about checking out that cave, they wouldn't have been dragged off by the Goblins, Bilbo wouldn't have become lost and found the Ring in the first place and it would have stayed lost for longer. Maybe he might not have been able to help the Dwarves as well with the spiders? Or perhaps the Elvenking would have caught him wandering the palace and THAT part of the quest would have been different. But whatever else was different - the events of LOTR would have been very different.
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Old 03-21-2004, 08:36 PM   #24
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Sting

so who are you saying is an important minor character? the clouds?
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Old 03-22-2004, 01:30 PM   #25
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'Minor' Characters

It's a testament to the scope of Tolkien's achievement that three very important minor characters haven't yet been mentioned: Arwen (who did get a brief mention in an above post), Elrond & Galadriel! They are all minor characters in the sense that they hardly appear in the book at all, and when they do it is to provide help or support to the major characters. They undergo no character development of their own, and are not real hindrances to the journey, nor do they play hugely 'active' roles in the Quest (more on that below).

Well, OK, as I write that I realise by my own definitions I shall have to take Galadriel off the list, perhaps

What is so great about their characterisation, however, is that while they are minor characters in the plot/story/narrative they are very important parts of the thematic concerns of the work. In this respect, Tolkien is comparable to Shakespeare (I DO hope you are reading this post Kransha!) who frequently uses characters for brief appearances in the plays, and yet without whom the whole fabric would fall apart (Caliban in The Tempest for example, or Mercutio in Romeo and Juliet).

Elrond is there as a repository of memory, and as a reminder of the huge sweep of history that the War of the Ring culminates. He is part of that history, and so the Quest to destroy the Ring could only begin from his home.

Arwen's thematic importance as the fulfillment and complement to Aragorn's story is so obvious (and has been dealt with so much in other threads) that it hardly bears comment here. And yet she hardly EVER appears in the book itself -- a minor character indeed, but hugely important.

Galadriel (who I will still put in my list) is the very embodiment of WHY the Ring must be destroyed. To have people talking all the time about how dangerous it is, is one thing: to actually have a Noldor tempted by it -- and to see the potential danger that she presents to the world should she take it. . .brrrrrrr

One thing that occurs to me only as I write this: the more powerful a character is, the more minor a role he or she is accorded. Only makes sense when the book is dedicated to foregrounding the hobbits. The great irony of the book revealed! -- the minor characters of the history of Middle-Earth are the major characters of LotR, and vice versa.
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Old 03-23-2004, 01:35 AM   #26
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Yeah, the clouds were definitely important in the story of Bilbo and the dwarves:-), but I was thinking of Fili and Kili - slack, both of them! ;-)
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Old 03-30-2004, 01:33 PM   #27
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Sauron himself

It is interesting that what has the most power is never really seen to use it. The only thing we see the ring do (or not see, as the case may be) is turn folks invisible. Other than that, we get no real demonstration of its power. The same goes for Sauron. All we ever see of him is an eye. We only have the word of Gandalf and the elves that he was a bad guy. Wait a minute! What if he was really all right and those people were just spreading lies about him? After all, we never really hear his side of the story.

Just kidding. Don't want to get carried away.
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Old 03-30-2004, 09:01 PM   #28
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Thumbs up

Let's hope you ARE kidding, Stickiifinger! If the story took place in the modern world, Sauron would be one of those politicians or big business tycoons who are quite happy to wreck the environment for the sake of money or votes! Mind you, I wouldn't be surprised if, somewhere in the depths of fan fiction, there's a Mary Sue tale about how Sauron was redeemed with a hug. A lot of my friends in other fandoms prefer the villains.

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Old 03-31-2004, 07:49 AM   #29
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Sauron

Yes, I really am kidding just because I love the story as it is. But, what if...?

For the sake of argument, suppose Gandalf and the elves WERE the bad guys. We all know how the story can be skewed by bias. Suppose all the environmental damage was done by the "good guys" attacking Sauron. Suppose he was just trying to defend himself and the little piece of territory they allowed him. Suppose the orcs all had unhappy childhoods because they lived in poverty. What if the hobbits were just gullible?

And I repeat, this is just an exercise in creativity. The story is perfect as is, in my opinion.
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Old 03-31-2004, 08:20 AM   #30
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Pipe Broadening discussion

Are minor characters performing important plot devices not just that? Plot devices, clumsy or otherwise?
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Old 03-31-2004, 01:48 PM   #31
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Fordim Hedgethistle, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't what rimbauld saying is kind of what you said (in a round about way) on your earlier post?

I find it quite refreshing that Tolkien uses these minor characters as 'plot devices'. I can't put my finger on WHY, I just do. Maybe someone else will eloquently explain why..............
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Old 04-06-2004, 01:34 AM   #32
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I'd like to stretch this from minor characters to seemingly minor events, rather than make yet another thread. What about the events in THE HOBBIT? Of course, there's the matter of the Ring, as we all know, but what about the trolls' hoard? Bilbo picks up something small enough to be a troll's pocket knife and it just happens to be from Gondolin and what do you know? Many years later, Sting gives Frodo a lot of warning of orcish presence. Thorin casually throws a pretty mail coat made for an elvish princeling at Bilbo and many years later, it saves Frodo's life in Moria, not to mention leading to the fight that so conveniently wipes out enough orcs to enable Sam to rescue Frodo.

And, Saucepan Man, right on about the wonderful things Tolkien does with minor characters! I wonder if Thranduil's wine-loving butler is still sampling the goods in Mirkwood during the War of the Ring? Are Legolas's people still sending barrels down the river to a re-built Esgaroth?
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Old 04-06-2004, 02:25 AM   #33
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Saucepan, well spoken! I too enjoy the colorful touches given to the story by those characters who show up on the periphery. I'd like to add a tiny scene that is one of my favorites - Tolkien uses Ioreth once more to bring in the feeling of what the populace of Minas Tirith was thinking about their new king. Her kinswoman is a character who is mentioned only in the crowning scene, never named, and not characterized at all herself. But the country cousin shows us that people from afar came to see the king crowned, and Ioreth's comments show that already, legends were being told about the Hobbits. We also see an endearing glimpse into her character - making sure the kinswoman knows of her importance to the story, and that she has spoken with the king. And of course, she only stops talking when the events do not permit her to carry on!

I think it is part of Tolkien's tremendous gift of telling a good story that he is able to give so much information casually, in passing, without slowing the flow of the narrative. And I always love the glimpses of his humor that show up in those brief moments!
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Old 04-09-2004, 10:36 PM   #34
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Saucepan--

I'm nearing the 3/4 mark in The Letters of . . . and had just gone back earlier this evening and made a note on one that I think will add to your last post. It is Letter #194 and concerns the 1956 BBC radio dramatization. The adapter/producer had written to ask how the characters' "accents" [Tolkien's quotes, not mine] should be portrayed. Tolkien replied:
Quote:
. . . it would probably be better to avoid certain, actual or conventional, features of modern 'vulgar' English in representing Orcs, such as the dropping of aitches (these are, I think, not dropped in the text, and that is deliberate). . . I have no doubt that, if this 'history' were real, all users of the C[ommon] Speech would reveal themselves by their accent, differing in place, people, and rank, but that cannot be represented when C.S. is turned into English--and is not (I think) necessary. I paid great attention to such linguistic differentiation as was possible: in diction, idiom, and so on . . . The Rohirrim no doubt (as our ancient English ancestors in a similar state of culture and society) spoke, at least their own tongue, with a slower tempo and more sonorous articulation, than modern "urbans'. But I think it is save to represent them when using C.S., as they practicallyalways do (for obvious reasons) as speaking the best M[inas] T[irith]. Possibly a little too good, as it would be a learned language, somewhat slower and more careful than a native's. But that is a nicety safely neglected, and not always true.
The earlier portion adds to our understanding of how Ioreth & others come across so clearly as, well, who they are--Tolkien took such care with their syntax & expressions. It is, in many cases, so subtle that only a linguist/philologist (or Barrow Downer ) would be able to discern them. Some, like Sam, are much more obvious. I wonder if, given a sampling of speech (not from the book) of Elves, Hobbits, wizards, and Men, we could tell them apart.

Anyway, after reading this letter again, I'd like to add "diction, idiom, and so on" to the list as minor characters that have a big impact.

(The bit about the Rohirrim is included for the sheer effect it may have on one's internal audio while reading Eowyn's dialogue with Aragorn--I know it will enrich my personal soundtrack )

Osse, & Doug-- "Dwarves". . . "miners" . . . "Harf" . . . gosh, but I love this place!
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Old 04-10-2004, 02:04 PM   #35
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Does anyone else have any good examples?
I just remembered two minor characters that nobody else has yet mentioned in this thread.
The two nameless orcs, one a big fighting orc, the other a small "tracker", talking and arguing when Frodo and Sam are walking on the orc-path between the Morgai and the Ephel duath. I always found that conversation fun to read . It even evokes some sympathy with the small "snuffler" orc, who is obviously terrified of the Nazgűl, and would rather go home than work for Sauron.
"You can't even stick to your own folk. Go to your filthy Shriekers and may they freeze the flesh off you!"
They are not important to the plot of the story but, as others said, make it more colourful and realistic. This interlude shows the characteristics of orcs and their behaviour, in contrast to the people on the good side.
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Old 08-20-2004, 03:06 AM   #36
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Guinevere, I just noticed your reply when hunting for this particular thread for a reply in the chapters section.

The scene you mention with the two orcs also shows us another piece of the woven thread of Tolkien's plot. Imagine the scene. Merry/Eoywn do not defeat the Witch King. Let's forget what consequences that has for Minas Tirith. That would be inconsequential compared to the failure of the Quest.

I say this because, no death of the Witch King, no escalation of the argument the orcs were having into a fight and death for one of the orcs. Remember that the orc who survived was a tracker, so therefore without him running off after killing the other orc, Frodo and Sam would no doubt have been tracked and caught. Bye bye Middle-earth as we know it.......
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Old 08-20-2004, 10:40 AM   #37
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Imrahil probably saved Eowyn's life as well as Faramir's - or at least gave them a chance to be healed by Aragorn.... all though he is minor and his existence is probably mainly plot driven, he has always been a very clear character to me ..... he is more than a cipher and it can be surmised that many of Faramir's finest qualities may have been a legacy of his mother's side....

Another unsung hero is Gildor ...... it was his messages that alerted Rivendell to Frodo's peril and so Glorfindel et al were sent out..... as well as providing a black rider deterrent......
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