The War of the Rohirrim: Anime Middle-earth

[Huinesoron]

Yes, really.

New Line are working on a new LotR film, in continuity with the Jackson movies. Philippa Boyens, co-writer of the Jackson trilogy, is on as consultant. They've got the writers of Netflix's Dark Crystal series.

Aaaand it's an anime about Helm Hammerhand and that time Rohan got conquered by Dunland and its king turned into an icicle.

I mean... I guess, given that New Line are still running under the old "Hobbit + LotR + Appendices" license (unlike Amazon), Helm isn't a bad choice. His story is one of the more fleshed-out, and takes place over maybe a year or so - so it's easier to make a tidy plot out of than the Fall of Arnor and of the Line of Kings in Gondor, which spans three generations. But it's still kind of a weird choice.

Given the 'continuity with Jackson' claim, should we start a betting pool on which characters will randomly make an appearance? I'm betting on Legolas and Figwit (is he Lindir now?) leading an army from Rivendell. Which will include at least one Hobbit.

(Given the timing, and the 'is on the fast-track' description, I wonder if they're aiming for a release in December for the 20th anniversary of Fellowship...?)

hS

[Inziladun]

Oh, lovely.

Maybe they at least have some justification for gratuitous violence, what with Helm punching Freca to death, and killing many others similarly.

[Galadriel55]

I love the legend of Helm Hammerhand. I would love to see a movie adaptation, and would be willing to forgive a lot of plot and stylistic inaccuracy.

...But the two of you just made me realize just how much rubbish can be put into it as well, and now I am sad and conflicted.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

I may well watch this- in the same mode as that in which I watch Reefer Madness and Plan 9 From Outer Space.

(BTW, using Philippa Boyens as a script consultant is not unlike hiring the f/x guy from the original Star Trek series. Her writing is comparable to the Gorn's rubber suit.)

[Formendacil]

I am cautiously, well, not optimistic exactly (I wasn't that in 2000 and have yet to be given any reason to change my stance re: adaptations), but I am curious to see how well this does relative to the Amazon series and simply by its presentation of WHAT the subject matter is, i.e. a clearly delineated story from the Appendices rather than "the Second Age," I am more hopeful here than I am there.

I also have something of a default instinct--founded on what, I don't know--that animation is a superior medium into which one could adapt a fantasy novel. We'll see if that is given any evidence here.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

My first thought upon learning about this was that they might do a lot of very "overepic" and, yes, sadly violence-centered shots (what Inzil said about punching Freca to death).

Anything is of course possible. They might go a completely different way. But I somehow think that this could easily be Tolkien in nothing but a name: the focus being only on war; yes, perhaps in the spirit of old sagas, but lacking the elements that are central to Tolkien (or in other words, swapping the margins for the centre). Not realising that Tolkien may have used the elements of forms of old warrior-sagas, but that the spirit is something completely different. That the focus is not on war and honour for the sake of honour, but on so much more, like mercy, beauty, loss, hope...

Anyway, my subconscious apparently came up with yet a different take on how this might go in a dream I recently had.

[Snowdog]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

(BTW, using Philippa Boyens as a script consultant is not unlike hiring the f/x guy from the original Star Trek series. Her writing is comparable to the Gorn's rubber suit.)

I'm glad I wasn't sipping my beer when I read that.


As far as the War of the Rohirrim project. there has been some ridicule in the usual fece-stains on the internet about Mûmakil appearing in it. It actually isn't a really far reach as far as the souece material goes. From Appendix A in the section 'Stewards':

'In the days of Beren, the ninteenth Steward, an even greater peril came upon Gondor. Three great fleets, long prepared, came up from Umbar and the Harad, and assailed the coasts of Gondor in great force; and the enemy made many landings, even as far north as the mouth of the Isen. At the time Rohan was assailed from the west and the east, and the land was overrun, and they were driven into the dales of the White Mountains. In that year (2758) the Long Winter began with cold and great snows out of the north and the east which lasted for almost five months. Helm of Rohan and both his sons perished in that war, and there was misery and death in Eriador and in Rohan. But in Gondor south of the mountains things were less evil, and before spring came Beregond son of Beren had overcome the invaders. At once he sent aid to Rohan. He was the greatest captain that had arisen in Gondor since Boromir; and when he succeeded his father (2763) Gondor began to recover its strength. But Rohan was slower to be healed of the hurts that it had received. It was for this reason that Beren welcomed Saruman, and gave to him the keys of Orthanc; and from that year on (2759) Saruman dwelt in Isengard.'

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Snowdog

It actually isn't a really far reach as far as the souece material goes. From Appendix A in the section 'Stewards':

Okay, but now I really want to see the kind of ship you'd build to carry an AT-AT sized Oliphaunt.

Also, I love this for the implication that fighting giant elephants was something the Rohirrim had a) done before and b) developed a plan for. I'm imagining Eomer watching as they appear outside Minas Tirith, and his eyes light up. "By Béma... we've been waiting for this for three hundred years!"

hS

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Hannibal only had to ship his across the Strait of Gibraltar.... and they weren't much bigger than big horses. Oh, and they all froze to death.

[Boromir88]

I doubt anyone would go in with the expectation this will be "faithful" to the source material, seeing Boyens' involvement, and Newline's.

Having said that, it is a subject matter, or story pulled out of the Appendices that I do find interesting. I'd be most curious to see how they handle Helm's character, if the creators decide to gloss over his racism against the Dunlandings.

Jackson, in TTT, barely covers the Dunlandings, I recall a short scene where Saruman is rousing them up about the "horsemen taking their lands." It's not really broached in the books either, Gamling mentions Saruman is fueling their old hatred, but that's all I can recall.

[Snowdog]

Huin, I have no idea what you refer to when you say "an AT-AT sized Oliphaunt."

Pretty sure the Mariners of Umbar figured it out as they 'long-prepared' their fleet.

... and Will, seriously? You expect absolute realism in a mythical world? Unbelievable.

Boromir88, so far, I have yet to see exactly where it hasn't been faithful to any source material, which I have quoted in part. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Snowdog

Huin, I have no idea what you refer to when you say "an AT-AT sized Oliphaunt."

I'm referring to the very very large Mumakil of the Jackson movies, by way of the AT-AT. I think the comparison originated with Philosopher@Large back in the day. The concept art Mumak seems to be the same design.

(By some very quick maths - the Romans had very large ships which could carry 800-ton obelisks. Using the approximation that any animal is roughly the density of water, and that 1 m3 of water = 1 ton, I estimate from this image that a Jackson Mumak is about 10m long and 6m around the body, so about 300-400 tons. So you could just about do it - but I wouldn't want to take it onto rough seas!)

hS

[Snowdog]

I'm still looking forward to it as I am Rings of Power. Peter Jackson cleared the way for making whatever changes one wishes in visual adaptations. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Originally Posted by Snowdog

I'm still looking forward to it as I am Rings of Power. Peter Jackson cleared the way for making whatever changes one wishes in visual adaptations. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

And they say 'slippery slope' arguments are invalid.....

[Snowdog]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

And they say 'slippery slope' arguments are invalid.....

Who is "they"?

[Boromir88]

I'm actually more interested in this story than the Rings of Power.

https://www.theonering.net/torwp/202...heonering-net/

Could be good diving into Helm's decisions, and the grievances the Dunlendings had.

[Snowdog]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I'm actually more interested in this story than the Rings of Power.

https://www.theonering.net/torwp/202...heonering-net/

Could be good diving into Helm's decisions, and the grievances the Dunlendings had.

Yeah this will be pretty good. A long haul to April 2024 though.

[Huinesoron]

We got a trailer! With actual footage and everything!

It is...

... how can I put this...

... a seemingly-accurate retelling of the tale of Helm Hammerhand, with the addition of a) mumakil and b) the daughter of Helm (canonically unnamed but pivotal, here named Hèra which fits better than most of the RoP names and is apparently Icelandic), who appears to have dropped straight out of a Miyazaki/Ghibli movie.

... but on reading the Wikipedia article they have put a lot of thought into her. She's apparently based on Æthelflæd, Lady of the Mercians, who fought off the Vikings for seven years. She's still extremely anime (in the trailer, at least), but seems to be more than the RoP style generic fantasy dartboard characters.

Also: narration by Miranda Otto as Eowyn! Because if Eowyn had a favourite historical person, it would 100% be Helm's shieldmaiden daughter, huge anime eyes aside.

Release is set for 13 December, so I guess December is Middle-earth Movie Month again!

hS

[Snowdog]

Yeah, it looks alright. Didn't care for the half a minute lead-in from the twenty year old PJ movies. Not sure what that was about other than PJ wanting to say he is still relevant I guess. Maybe to remind/get the interest from casual fans.

The story fits pretty much within the lines of canon, which being a few pages of an appendix leaves a lot of leeway with the creative license/fanfic story.

I watched the Japanese trailer which was somewhat different, and has an unexplained appearance of Saruman in it. I'll go watch it once at least.

[Tar Elenion]

"It was at the crowning of Fréaláf that Saruman appeared, bringing gifts, and speaking great praise of the valour of the Rohirrim."
App. A

[Snowdog]

Originally Posted by Tar Elenion

"It was at the crowning of Fréaláf that Saruman appeared, bringing gifts, and speaking great praise of the valour of the Rohirrim."
App. A

Yes, I know it's explained in the appendix, just not in the one second he appears in the trailer.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

... but on reading the Wikipedia article they have put a lot of thought into her. She's apparently based on Æthelflæd, Lady of the Mercians, who fought off the Vikings for seven years.

Except Aethelflaed wasn't out swinging a sword. Like many "warrior" queens (Elizabeth I, Elizabeth the Great, Galadriel) she had a keen mind for strategy, but wasn't personally bashing people with cutlery. I'm not sure if I can come up with a historical warrior queen in Europe, although frankly we don't know enough about Boudicca to say one way or the other (sorry, Vikings fans, Lagertha was legendary)