If the Valar had children...

[Glorthelion]

I'm not sure if Tolkien states that the Valar are allowed to have children. But imagine this:
If Manwe and Varda had a child, that child would be immortal, no doubt. But would the child be counted as a Valar or just a Maia?

Glorthelion

[Inziladun]

Well, the first problem is the Valar did not by nature possess real bodies. In The Simarillion their forms are likened to clothing:

Now the Valar took to themselves shape and hue; and because they were drawn into the World by love of the Children of Ilúvatar, for whom they hoped, they took shape after that manner which they had beheld in the Vision of Ilúvatar, save only in majesty and splendour. Moreover their shape comes of their knowledge of the visible World, rather than of the World itself; and they need it not, save only as we use raiment, and yet may be naked, and suffer no loss being.

Ainulindalë

In order to bear offspring, Manwë and Varda would have been obliged to take on permanent physical forms, like Morgoth.
If that did occur, the spiritual potential of the offspring should be the same as the that of the parents, as immortal Vala. However, being born into the world in a physical form should no doubt have some effect on his or her powers as a "divine" being; I would think they would not be as powerful as the parents.

[Galadriel55]

I doubt that the Ainur could have children from ainu-to-ainu marriages. It just doesn't sound right. They were created by Eru, the All-father, and don't seem to have any other parents/begetters. So I don't think they can have children either.

There's no "proof" I could think of for the above statement, but it just doesn't feel right.

Melian was the only Ainu to marry a non-Ainu. She is the mother of Luthien. However, I think that she would not have been able to have that child had she not married a being that could actually "multiply". Because of THingol's ability, Melian could have a child. Am I making sense? That child, Luthien, and her descendants had a bit of Maian power, inherited from Melian. But they were not Maiar. Luthien, the closest to being one, is still considered and Elf, though she should be counted as a half-elf-half-maia. I think it is because to be an Ainu one has to have ALL the abilities and disabilities of an Ainu. Since Luthien could give birth to Dior like any Elf or Man could, because of her own ability and not her husband's, she cannot really be a true Maia, only a powerful Elf.

If Manwe and Varda could have children, though, I think the child would have been a Vala, since both parents were. But again - it's just wrong in the context of ME. One can imagine a baby Elf, Man, Dwarf, orc (depending on what theory of their origin you believe in), Enting, and other physical living beings I might have missed. The Valar are less physical and more like spirits. And it just feels wrong when you try to imagine a squealing Valar baby, or even child. The Valar were never little, even when they were young. They cannot really be, once again, since they are spirits more than beings of flesh.

Edit: xed with Inzil

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Glorthelion

I'm not sure if Tolkien states that the Valar are allowed to have children. But imagine this:
If Manwe and Varda had a child, that child would be immortal, no doubt. But would the child be counted as a Valar or just a Maia?

Glorthelion

In the original conception of the stories, the Valar could have children. For example, in an early version, the child of Manwë and Varda is Fionwë. I think the idea of Valar and Maiar was less rigid at that point, but he was definitely considered of lower rank than his parents. I think that in the 'final' version, the difference between Valar and Maiar is more one of authority than essence, because, after all, they're all Ainur. The only difference is that the Valar are the ones in charge because they have more power, i.e. are the masters of their element, etc.

Of course, this raises many more questions, such as the nature of the Ainur themselves, and where such an essence would come from. I mean, could you really talk about the fëa of an Ainu? They could probably be called all fëa, but they're also beyond that, because they can create their own incarnations. So how would you be able to get a new being of that high nature? I reckon that's one reason Tolkein abandoned the idea. There's also the whole problem of the Ainulindalë. Would the children have participated in it? If so, then they would have been created outside Eä, in which case it's impossible for them to physically create offspring, and so they would have to have been made by Eru. If not, they would have been created as physical and part of the world, and therefore would not be Ainur at all, as they'd only have a physical form. And then what would they be?


Anyway, to answer your question, I think I'll go back to the case of Fionwë. He was originally conceived to be the child of Manwë, a Vala, but almost nothing else about him was changed by Tolkien when he became my namesake. He still has the same sort of position and role and power. So the answer would be a Maia, I think, from what we know of Tolkien's thoughts.

[Morthoron]

As Eönwë stated, the original conception of the Valar was that they were capable (and willing ) to bear children; however, Tolkien abandoned the concept and made it exceptional, as in the case of Melian taking the form of one of the Children of Iluvatar so that she could bear a child with Thingol.

[markyboy156]

I'm after more background on the children of the moon dwarves

also I can't find any where the racial stats
and full list of abilities for the half maiar/ half valar children of the moon dwarves
does any body please have this info if not

can anybody please make me up the racial stats and full powers of the moon dwarves
and as much background as possible on them

I've got a player who wants to play a moon dwarf need info asap thanks