Quote:
Originally Posted by Huinesoron
I think GA2 postdates XXII, specifically:
So 1330 is the later date.
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I consulted Hammond and Scull's 'Chronology', and all the references to the GA are within c. 1951-2 range.
But perhaps you're right, though Tolkien might've reverted back to the GA1 in the NoME excerpt of the AAm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huinesoron
We can do this very easily, anchoring off the Late Timeline's date for Olwe's departure, and it doesn't really work:
- GA 1150 - LT 3237 - Olwe departs.
- GA 1152 - LT 3256 - Elwe awakes.
- GA 1200 - LT 3716 - Luthien born.
- GA 1250 - LT 4195 - Dwarves arrive
- GA 1300 - LT 4674 - Menegroth built.
- GA 1330 - LT 4961 - Orcs enter Beleriand.
- GA 1350 - LT 5153 - Coming of Denethor.
- [GA 1495] - LT 5473 - Death of the Trees.
The GA entry for 1350 says "Of the long years of peace that followed after the coming of Denethor there is little tale". In this timeline, those "long years" are less than 2.5 Valian Years, when GA would have them be almost 10 VY! The "long years of peace" end up starting after Feanor already made the Silmarils. My proposal at least gives them 4VY, which is something. So I think anchoring Beleriand to the AAm claim that the Dwarves entered Beleriand in the same year that Feanor made the Tengwar is more reasonable.
Luthien is actually completely separate to that question, but as Turin said to Orodreth, we really do have to think about Morgoth:
And a 12VY Chaining fits! It fits with Luthien's place in the timeline, it fits with the assertion that the March occured before the fall of Utumno:
And it fits with the quote you found regarding the Fall of Men:
Set against that is one assertion, also from VI.B:
Which, if we take the actual figure of 10VY between the Finding and the "arising and fall", means the latter would sit in 3600, just about a thousand years before the (approximate) separation of the Hadorians and Beorians. |
I'm not sure if the 'long years of peace after the coming of Denethor' should be taken as gospel...
But my biggest problem is that the '3 ages of Melkor's imprisonment' in the revised timeline is essentially made up - if anything I'd keep the 300 VY=c. 2,875 SY figure. But that would mean that Melkor is only released in c. FA 5276!
One thing that always bothered me is that Melkor doesn't start making a mess of things
immediately after being released - yes, Tulkas is watching him, but I'd imagine he could find his way around.
In the end, I suppose what matters is what you take as the cornerstone:
1) Melkor's 3 ages of imprisonment, and how faithfully do you wish to stick to the original c. 2,875 SY figure
2) the departure of the Vanyar and Noldor to Aman in YT 1132
3) or something else altogether
Perhaps you could even do what you did with the AAm - anchor the earlier YT GA dates around the departure of the Vanyar and the Noldor (YT 1132), and anchor the later figures around, say, the death of the Trees (YT 1495/VY 888)? Of course, what counts as 'later figures'?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huinesoron
I think Cirdan is confirmed somewhere to have been born by Cuivienen. We could probably put a note about Eol on the relevant entry (looks like it's 2931); it's not like we know how he's related to Elwe anyway, so missing that out won't be too hard.
300 note 16 points back to the same genealogical tables. 257 places Elrun and Eldun in the Wanderings of Hurin. I'm starting to think Nimloth herself literally only appears once, let alone her relationship to any other Sindar!
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About Cirdan - yeah, I'll have to go dig up a reference, but I'm pretty sure you're right.
And yes, Eol can easily still be Thingol's kin even if he decided to stop at the Hithaeglir (I mean, there are 23 generations between Thingol and Enel/Enelye!). Which would also explain why he gave him Nan Elmoth (an entire forest), even if Eol had to work for it - but perhaps that's what Tolkien had in mind when he said that kinship with Thingol 'would have point'.