[Arvegil145]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Okay! Birth and marriages of the House of Finwe in Aman. Dates in bold have direct textual support; dates in italics are extrapolations from known dates and deduced 'standard intervals':



The 1169/1179 issue for Feanor has gone away entirely in this timeline. NoME VII cites both his birth and begetting dates, and then says "this is 270 SY after Finwe landed in Aman"; the 270 SY is his begetting, so I have used that date + 3sy as the start point for the timeline.

I've also not used the given date for Fingolfin's birth; rather, because FM4 gives a later account of the date of Finwe and Indis' marriage, I have taken the relative date of 5 VY (=48 SY) after the marriage; for the rest of the timeline, I have treated that date as equivalent to AAm 1190 and calculated from there.

This is the only way of "using the Annals of Aman dating" which gives a reasonable pre-Silmaril date for Galadriel and Aredhel (or Ireth; I think the Shibboleth gives the last name for her?). In fact, it's so reasonable that I was happy to switch it out for the date I calculated in my last post - they're only 12 SY apart!

With the addition of Findis, Fingolfin is born very quickly after his older sibling, which feels like it lends weight to Feanor's feeling that his father was looking to replace him. Perhaps that's why Fingolfin's own children are so widely spaced - he didn't want them feeling the same way.

There's a lot of assumptions in this timeline. I (currently) think it's the best option, but it's also far less firm than the rest of the Final Timeline. My current plan is to remove all Valinorean birth dates entirely to an appendix, so that they're clearly a "best guess" rather than a solid theory.

hS

You've outdone yourself - somehow you made all this mess make sense, and without too much speculation!

I don't think there's anything better that you could've done with what we have.

Appendix is alright, but I think a better solution might be to color-code the dates, like in Space_Lemmon's reddit timeline.


Just a few minor nitpicks: it should be Amros and Amrod/Amarthan, since Tolkien switched the birth order of the twins; also, Aredhel is the latest name, since it appears in the final 'Maeglin' text from the '70s; and Orodreth seems to have replaced Arothir - judging by this c. 1972/3 quote by Tolkien:

It may anyway be observed that though Quenya names were not used, those used were probably all the names of renowned heroes in the royal lines of old as recorded in legend. Some may come from tales now lost; but Húrin, Túrin, Hador, Barahir, Dior, Denethor, Orodreth, Ecthelion, Egalmoth, Beren are from legends recorded.

Implying that Orodreth was yet again the character's name. While we're on the subject of Orodreth - perhaps it's best to leave Finduilas' birth year as Tolkien wrote it (FA 272), regardless of the (outdated) calculations he used, especially since if we used FA 16, Orodreth would only be c. 190 years old when Finduilas is born - and another thing to note is that, since the Noldor in Beleriand generally tended not to have children, I think the refuges such as Nargothrond, Gondolin and Doriath might have been an exception, since they were hidden and life there went almost as usual as in Aman (until their destruction, of course).

So I think it would be best to leave Finduilas' birth year after the founding of Nargothrond - not that it matters, since you're not including the last 6 centuries, but anyway.



Also, have you checked the Grey Annals yet? Because I forgot to mention that the chapter 1.XXII of the NoME also has YT 1300 and 1350 as the dates for the building of Menegroth and the coming of Denethor, respectively. And more.

And finally, what do you think about this quote from 1.XVIII, concerning Celeborn:

According to Elvish calculations, the period between the arrival of the Eldar in Aman and the end of the First Age in the Overthrow of Morgoth, was 3,100 löar. If that is correct,[fn5]* then Celeborn was of unknown age when he entered Beleriand, but certainly 24 and full-grown, added in 3,100 löar nearly 21 life-years and was 45[fn6]* at the end of the First Age. He married Galadriel shortly after when she was 28 (21 [mortal equivalent]). In TA 3021, when bereft of Galadriel he was 68 + 21 = 89 (66+ [mortal equivalent]) and advanced in “maturity".

However, the above passage has two footnotes attached to it:

Footnote 5: It probably was not; it was very likely longer. In that case Celeborn must have been a descendant (not son) of Elmo and born in Beleriand.

Footnote 6: At least (thus = 33–34 [life-years]).

The second footnote, if I'm interpreting it right, means that Tolkien meant to replace Celeborn's age from 45 to 33/34 at Bel. 600?