[Arvegil145]

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Depends on the dates. I think I know what you're asking, see below in comments on your birthdate-list.



To directly convert between the two, just use the ratio (1495-1050)888-850), or 445:38. That is, 1 AAm VY = 38/445 NoME VY, or 1 NoME VY = 445/38 (=11.71) AAm VY.

No, I meant - take for example the Awaking of Men (VY 1075 I assume): how did you arrive at 862/50 (FA 1778) figure? As in, can you walk me through the process?

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

All dates in the Final Timeline rev 3 are either precise or marked "Ca." I understand the urge to make the dates "prettier", but the purpose of the Final Timeline is to say what Tolkien did, and he hadn't done that. Absolutely he would have - but he didn't.

I meant 'ca.' in regards to separation of the Folk of Hador and Beor and the like.

EDIT: Maybe you should expand the explanation in your scheme as to why Men awoke in 862/50 (based on the VY 1075 date), and why the 'awakening' and 'arising' of Men are not one and the same.

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

This is what I just did. The key difference is that I took from NoME, and from the notes to AAm, the late change of Feanor's birth year to 1179. That pulls everything else earlier, as I showed in my list. (By the way, I added Idril and Finduilas to the end of the post, not sure if you saw that; I ended up posting it after you'd replied.)

In regards to Feanor's birth year, did you mean this:

The entry in AAm for the Valian Year 1179 (p. 92) gave the birth of Feanor in Tirion and his mother's name Byrde Miriel. Afterwards my father changed this date to 1169...

- MR, p. 205

Because CT says that Tolkien changed 1179 to 1169, not the other way around.

Unless of course there's something else that I'm missing.


EDIT: Yeah, sorry, I missed your edit - and I've also had a lot on my plate recently, so I didn't read your post carefully in the first place.

I'm pretty amazed that our timeline is matching up this well in regards to Idril.

And, at the risk of reopening this can of worms, I still think that our best course is to discard the 'very young Galadriel' idea - I think that the Shibboleth trumps the other, earlier texts - and yes, you can speculate if Tolkien would've moved the making of the Silmarils much later, but that's all there is to it. So, I don't think it would be too much of a compromise to put her year of birth around c. 5000 - that's not that off from your calculation, and yet still makes her older than the Silmarils. (I would also move Aredhel's birth to the same year as Galadriel's, as in AAm - that would just require moving Argon after c. FA 5000.)

I wonder what would be Celebrimbor and Orodreth's years of birth? I would imagine something close to that of Idril's. It's weird though how few births there are in the 3rd generation after Finwe (i.e. his great-grandkids), and how long the gulf between parents' and children's birth years is.

Also, BTW, Curufin should be the 4th son, not Caranthir - all the later texts have them in this order.

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

They're in the Grey Annals, right? The difficulty is how to anchor them - is Luthien's birth "this long after the Teleri sail" or "this long before Morgoth returns"? With Feanor I have a specific date mentioned in NoME to pin things on; I don't think that exists for Luthien, or the Beleriand stuff.

There's a whole chunk of YT entries in the Grey Annals, including the birth year of Luthien (YT 1200, WotJ p. 9 - but also see MR, p. 106, note to §81), building of Menegroth (YT 1300, WotJ pp. 10-11), the coming of Denethor (YT 1350, WotJ pp. 13-14), etc.

EDIT: Or are you referring to the '27 years after the arrival of the Noldor' figure in the NoME as the anchor? Because the Grey Annals also has 'YT 1132' (WotJ, p. 7) as the year in which the Vanyar and Noldor left, which follows perfectly the 'YT 1133' figure of their arrival in Aman in AAm that Tolkien was referencing in the NoME.