[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Arvegil145

BTW, how exactly do you calculate these dates?

Depends on the dates. I think I know what you're asking, see below in comments on your birthdate-list.

Originally Posted by Arvegil145

And, say, I took the FA dates in AAm, beginning in 1050 and ending in the death of the Trees in 1495.

And I took the FA dates in NoME, beginning in 850 and ending in the death of the Trees in 888.

Is there any way to get a conversion scale between the two frameworks?

To directly convert between the two, just use the ratio (1495-1050)888-850), or 445:38. That is, 1 AAm VY = 38/445 NoME VY, or 1 NoME VY = 445/38 (=11.71) AAm VY.

Originally Posted by Arvegil145

First of all, before I make any other comment - I think you really should stress when a date is approximate or within a given range. And when dealing with such dates, I think maybe you ought to round them up/down to the nearest "pretty" number (ala 860, 865, 870, etc.; as well as the SY dates too).

All dates in the Final Timeline rev 3 are either precise or marked "Ca." I understand the urge to make the dates "prettier", but the purpose of the Final Timeline is to say what Tolkien did, and he hadn't done that. Absolutely he would have - but he didn't.

Originally Posted by Arvegil145

I was thinking that, maybe, instead of keeping the relative differences between dates in AAm in regards to births, marriages, etc., we should keep their rough yet absolute difference according to the old AAm conception of VY:SY = 1:9.582 - what I mean is this (these are of course just examples):

This is what I just did. The key difference is that I took from NoME, and from the notes to AAm, the late change of Feanor's birth year to 1179. That pulls everything else earlier, as I showed in my list. (By the way, I added Idril and Finduilas to the end of the post, not sure if you saw that; I ended up posting it after you'd replied.)

Originally Posted by Arvegil145

are you sure about the 12 + 12 + 3 years of waiting for Finwe?

This is taken directly from the final version of the Statute of Finwe and Miriel. Finwe spent 12 years appealing to Miriel before going to Manwe; Mandos required 12 years before he would approve the dissolution; and Finwe married Indis 3 years later (a year after meeting her). Unless there's a later source, I'm confident.


I'm not overly concerned about the large gaps between births of parents and that of children since this is Aman and everyone is indulging in pursuits other than child making all the time.

Originally Posted by Arvegil145

Anyway, I'm not that enthusiastic about my own proposal though since YT 1495 would end up as FA 6444! Well after the First Age ended according to the scheme.

The problem here is that by NoME, Tolkien had shortened the years in Aman. Any application of AAm dates to NoME timelines has to account for that; I did so on the Timeline by cutting out a chunk of time between the Finwean births and the making of the Silmarils.

Given the uncertainty around the births, I think I will avoid adding them to the Timeline proper at all; I will stick an appendix on the end with our "best calculation", which looks to be this one.

Originally Posted by Arvegil145

EDIT: I forgot, why no Luthien? Or any events from YT Beleriand?

They're in the Grey Annals, right? The difficulty is how to anchor them - is Luthien's birth "this long after the Teleri sail" or "this long before Morgoth returns"? With Feanor I have a specific date mentioned in NoME to pin things on; I don't think that exists for Luthien, or the Beleriand stuff.

Originally Posted by Arvegil145

P.S. I'm not sure about the 'Men corrupted by Sauron' part however, since this is never mentioned again outside of NoME and seems to contradict the stuff in PoME.

I stand by my position that the contradiction is an illusion. The second visit of the "Lord of the Dark" to Men in the Athrabeth is so Sauron, playing exactly the game he did six thousand years later in Numenor.

Originally Posted by Arvegil145

Also, about that quote from the Athrabeth ("at the beginning of the history of our people, before any had yet died") - if we take it at face value, an important thing to note is that Men's original lifespan was c. 200-300, the same as that of the Numenoreans, at least according to a late (c. 1968) text:

Good catch. That's why it's an approximate date, but I think I'll go ahead and push it down to the end of the VY anyway.

hS