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Old 04-03-2010, 11:30 AM   #16
Formendacil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hookbill the Goomba
Unlike El / YHVH, Eru / Illuvatar is not so involved in the creation of the world. He is indirectly responsible, perhaps. But ultimately, it is the Valar who are the creators, for it is their music (though a convincing argument that it all came from Eru anyway could be made). The point is, Eru seems to have handed most of the responsibility over to the slightly inept and bumbling Valar. Once again, this probably has a lot to do with Tolkien's love of Pantheons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inziladun View Post
Ilúvatar was the Prime Creator, of course; the holder of the Flame Imperishable. Eä was his direct creation. If he is the company CEO, the Valar are 'department heads', charged with running the 'company' in line with his directives. As created beings themselves, the Valar are certainly not infallible, sometimes necessitating some direct action from the Top.
Hookbill's point about Tolkien's love of pantheons seems spot-on to me, in terms of Tolkien's motivations vis-a-vis the Valar, but I am going to have to voice a bit of disagreement regarding the Valar being, "ultimately... the creators" and Eru the indirect creator. Quite possibly, we're actually saying the same thing, in terms of intention, but I am a pedant and must persist.

The Music of the Valar, though it provided the template for Arda did not create Arda. Certainly, in the Music, Eru was only an indirect Creator--though I would argue that the the composer and conductor of a piece of music is more than an indirect participator, but rather a major player--albeit, since this is a work involving great amounts of improvisation, by no means the only player. All the same, I would emphasise that Arda was not created by the Music--it was created when Eru said "Eä: Let these things be!"

Obviously, the Valar then have a great role in shaping Arda, just as they had an influential role in the Music, but they are not the actual creators. Eru creates very much ex nihilo, and this is one of the major differences between him and the Valar: the Valar can only work with what they are given, whereas Eru can cause things to be that we not.

To my mind, this makes Eru the direct creator, and the Valar but sub-creators (and indirect creators insofar as they shaped the Music which Eru called into being).
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