[Nienna]

When Boro was making contributions: Note: edited for Smileys because apparently you can't have 18 in one post... who knew?

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I's ready to do mysa part and be an attractive kill choice. I never knew wolves who would deny themselves nice, thick and crispy bacon. Mmm

Oh and I guess that means no one should waste their time trying to save me at night...Elles ont comprend? (If that is wrong, please don't correct me).

Tries to be wolf-bait. Interesting…

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Nilp! Welcome back to this institution that you, yes you, have gotten me addicted to.

Inzil, sorry, it's happening again. I'm getting those wolf feelings about you...wouldn't mind if I voted for you today would ya?

Oh, and Nilp has an uncontrollable tendancy to want to lynch himself, just so you are made aware of that.

Bad feelings about Zil right from the start. Could be wolf-on wolf.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Oh pig loins! All the suspicion you acquire every single time, has made you much more cool and calm. I should have expected it.

I wouldn't say that. Mnemo's has gotten several people talking about a subject, there's information there, now let's look through it. There are still too many quiet villagers, but hey there's been a lot of commenting on Mnemo's plan.

Since she was the originator, I don't see how proposing a controversial idea, while getting lots of comments on it makes someone suspicious. We've been given about as good as info as we can expect to get on Day 1, courtesy of Mnemo. Now look through it and interpret it, because it's not posts and posts about pigs, fools, and feminine wiles.

For the time being, I see Mnemo as kind of the aunt you want to keep at arm's length. She's part of the family, and generally a sweet person, but you're not sure about the true nature of the activities she is up to, so I'm just keeping her at a safe distance for now.

By the way, I wouldn't mind trying her plan once the wolves are down to 1 kill. Two kills complicates everything, and could really make a mess of things, but if one wolf be gone, well it may just be worth it. Maybe it's just me, but the fact is sometimes as a wolf you have to do some real crazy stuff to win, it's no cake walk that's for sure. I think at times we have to do the same, and try out something that seems a little "out there." It could fail stupendously, but it could give us a brilliant and worthy win.

Is glad Mnemo brought up her plan as it gives us something to talk about. He just isn’t willing to do it yet.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Haha, sorry that won't be happening this time around. The lazy bums will have to do the work themselves, as I will have to do for myself.

I'm getting to that soonish, but I will probably have to vote a few hours before the DL.

Not at all, merely pointing out I don't see why the plan would make Mnemo look suspicious, at first look. There are innocent intentions, and it's been well thought out. Plus the way she's defended it afterwards looks more innocent...it hasn't been a

"Hey lets get the seer to reveal and have us and the Ranger switch off proteting."

A loud "NO!" from the crowd.

Mnemo: "Oh, ok, guess I was wrong...so who's a wolf?"

She's thought it out and defended it quite well, and I don't agree with sally at all about it being cheap. Hey, we use the toys the mod-god gives us...If the wolves think it's cheap, they need to quit their whining and figure out how they want to beat it.

My only reservation is, as Kitanna said, it shouldn't absolve her. It's not like wolves can't come up with an apparently helpful, ingenius idea, only then to tell her packmates to mess it up.

Hmm interesting, but I would take it more as a fortunate circumstance if it just so happens we guard a wolf. I'm going to make my decision based on either someone I would not want to see killed, or someone who I think would force the wolves hand.

Like, say we could hope to protect one of the no-trail kills, to try and force the wolves to actually kill someone who will leave a trail back to them. How it stands now though, I think I'll go with option one today, because there be still too many no-trailers for the wolves to pick off.

Edit: crossed with everyone since Pitch

Defends Mnemo for her plan. Thinks that if we guard a wolf it will just be good luck and not to make decisions based on it.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

So, Mnemo unveils her plan straight away, and has to adjust the original idea, because the Mayor said we can't Night guard the same person two nights in a row. That is how I understand the Ranger was brought into the situation.

Now lets just see what everyone's said about it...

wilwa in post 8:

which crossed with Mnemo's 7, where she brought up the ranger too. Two people who thought the same thing, something that wilwa pointed out and it appears now Mnemo didn't appreciate the comparison.

Kitanna's post 9

The quick dismissiveness of the post looks suspicious. I read it as "Ya, ok, whatever...but the wolves will find a way around it so no point in continuing.

Plus, it really wouldn't be difficult to organize. Seer reveals, we protect seer Night 1 (the ranger will know because who we Night guard is known) then Ranger takes seer next night. The risk is since everyone is not on the same page with the plan, it would be unwise to do it right away, for only chaos can ensue from innocents not being on the same page, add on top wolves trying to mess things up.

Kitanna in 13 too caught my attention

Ahh honourably trying to look out for the innocents best interest are we? Balderdash. I would happily be killed if it means the seer is not, and so should any other innocent. The seer is our best weapon, and if we can be assured that the seer is kept alive to get multiple dreams, it's worth the sacrifice.

And Inzil's 22 is why I said he was looking like a wolf to me again

He rather forcibly rejects the idea with what I read as a rhetorical question, but then says there is some sense to it if we give it serious thought. Then goes back to agree with Kitanna's and be just as dismissive as Kit.

Did you really think we would be foolish enough to just go full steam ahead with an unconventional plan and not talk it out before asking the seer to reveal?

I have to stop here, I thought I'd be able to cram everything in, in roughly 40 minutes, but can't. I'll finish with the rest of the reactions to Mnemo's plan, when I get back, and then vote.

Edit: crossed since sally's post 90

I think this might have been the beginnings of the Kit suspicion. He still thinks Zil is suspicious.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Continuing then...as a matter of aside, I really hate financial advising appointments. I mean really is it necessary to take hours to only learn you have no money?

Nienna in 28

This looks innocent, disagrees and notes the risk of it. Plus her other post today (#92) looks good too, I just wish Nienna would step out more. You've got a smart mind, have some confidence and trust it.

So we reach Legate in #33, I think this was before the post where Nogrod points to taking a moral high-ground. Others have already brought up that the Ranger wouldn't have to reveal, but I want to look at this (bold my emphasis)...

What? The seer is no real use unless xe catches wolves? When did the idea that the seer needs to do our work for us happen? Ok, maybe that's rhetorical because it is always nice when the seer says "here's your wolves people." But how often does that really happen?

Most of the wolf-lynchings that happen are done by our own work and sweat, and a sprinkle of good fortune. Any information a seer gives is valuable, whether the seer knows wolves or not. Known innocents may become a night target, but it also limits the unknown number, thus increasing our chances to lynch a wolf during the day. Sorry, saying the seer would be no use unless the seer has a wolf is just wrong.

Greenie in 36:

Possibly, but would you say a wolf would continue to defend the idea, and argue for it, even after many people expressed their disagreements with it?

And that's about all I feel like commenting on, or what hasn't been said/who hasn't been pointed out. For, I concur with Nogrod about Lommy objecting because it would be unfair to the wolves. Although, sally hints at the same thing, and I really don't find her suspicious. I just wish ye both would get out of your heads that we have to play nicely with the wolves. Of course there are always certain things off limit, as meta-gaming reasons, but look these are the weapons we've been given to work with...let's try to use them. Don't do the wolves work for them, let them figure out how they want to beat whatever plans we come up with.

Edit: crossed with Kit and on.

Thinks the seer’s info is just extra and that we have to work to catch the wolves on our own. He also thinks that we shouldn’t do the wolves work for them. Seems reasonable.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Funnily enough I may put in my lynch vote before my guard vote. It's almost like with a guard-vote my honor is at stake.

…interesting…

Originally Posted by Boromir88

[lynch vote]++Kitanna[/lynch vote]

Thought her reactions to Mnemo earlier in the day were suspicious, as well as her lynch-vote for Brinn. How is it that Brinn always seems to get herself in trouble...even when she actively tries to avoid it? Must be frustrating.

And I will guard

++Nienna

tonight.

He mentioned many times that he thought Zil wolf-like. He did mention some suspicion of Kit and I guess it outweighed his suspicion of Zil… or he would rather lynch an innocent than a pack mate…

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Unbelievable, the seer gone again in Day 1? This is a joke, isn't it? Hopefully one of the hidden roles was a seer.

I'd say it would be pretty stupid not to do it, but we shouldn't just vote and attend our other business. We have to make every day a productive day now.

I'm watching McCaber who pointed out the wolves may want to fake us out and only chose one kill, so we lynch the person we guarded the day before. Interesting theory, but most peculiar that McCaber points this out yesterday, Legate is guarded, and we awake with only one death.

For now too I feel good about Pitch who pointed out something in the rules that I overlooked. Usually that's a pretty good judge of someone's innocence, even though if wolves will read rules too, I doubt they would point out something like that which would only hurt them.

Good point about McCaber. Feels good about Pitch.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

As for Nilps point a while ago, that two kills would mean Legate was a known innocent. The wolves could have just spent the kill on Legate the next night, bye bye known innocent. But as we know that didn't happen.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Good point. But it also works against your argument.

That's the point, there are other gifteds. The seer is the most dangerous threat to the wolves, but they shouldn't get cocky. There are other gifteds, and other secret roles, which can turn out to be known innocents too. Too many known innocents is as much of a threat to the wolves as the seer can be. Ask Nienna about it, despite lynching the seer on Day 1, having so many potential known innocents at the end nearly ruined them.

I can see the wolves trying it if they need one lynch for a victory, but there's a lot of villagers, and still a lot of threats to the wolves, even if the seer is dead. If they want to play games and waste kill chances be my guest. But pulling a trick, just to frame an innocent because they are feeling good about fortune on Day 1 makes little sense.


Relax. I said that very thing in my first post, but I'm tired, I have school and other things I'm busy with, allow me a bit more time.

Thinks wolves making a frame instead of a kill doesn’t make a lot of sense. This could be wolf with insider knowledge or … more likely… innocent not knowing

Originally Posted by Boromir88

And before I do my thorough read through:


You should note too that Inzil has been acting that way towards others, which is why I'm suspicious of him...

To me...


And to Hakon...

Yes he has Inzil, and what's the point if he hasn't?

Suspicious of Zil still…

Originally Posted by Boromir88

You say it looks easy, I think it looks too clean. Pitch brings up the niche in the rules, Legate and McCaber yesterday say the Night Guard could be used to frame an innocent. Now Legate is spiritly arguing he is being framed.

I will agree with Inzil that it's been an admirable defense, but that doesn't take away from the fact that the "framing defense" is one of the weakest. Think you're that important to the wolves, eh?

I remember Mac in Brinn's last game after claiming (successfully) to be the Ranger, but still not dying that night passionately, and in some ways convincingly, argued that he was being set up as an easy lynch. Still didn't take away from the fact that it was a bogus defense because if he wasn't a wolf and declared he was the Ranger, the wolves would have killed him, but they didn't, ergo Mac had to be one of the wolves.

Now Legate is arguing he is being framed as an easy lynch, after setting up for the apparently "solid" defense the previous day. I say apparently solid, because shouting a "wolf set up conspiracy against me" is in fact...weak and the only reason Legate would use such a weak defense is because it's the only one he's got left after one wolf kill last night.

And now to other things

Thinks Legate is a wolf and that framing defense is the weakest.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

If I recall correctly, the NG was not the reason you were found suspicious yesterday.

[lynch vote]++Legate[/lynch vote]

Guard.

++Nerwen

Me really likes her approach to everything so far.

I'm voting now because I may be able to rush back to my apartment and say a little more before the DL, but there's a good chance I won't be able to.

Votes Legate and guards Nerwen.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

She won't, she's having serious laptop issues because of a nasty trojan and I don't think she'll be able to come back, which means it's up to the Mayor with what he wants to do.

I don't think so, it strikes me as a very sally thing to do. I don't know if it was really necessary to do it after every single vote, but I can tell you it was certainly nice as a mod to get the vote tallies as the DL was closing down, instead of scrolling through pages to gather all the votes while constantly checking the time and making sure the game closes on time.

Defends Sally

Originally Posted by Boromir88

A quick question about the NG votes, if one wolf goes, would one of the other 3 try to attract the NG vote or not? Something for us to mull over perhaps.

I didn't know you wanted to tango, or I may have been more willing. My apologies. Although, I may seem a bit off from my normal combativeness, that is mostly though due to other things. Like not originally intending to play in a game after modding one and being a bit exhausted this week.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Crossed with Noggers

But that behavior towards the end is not unusual to sally, whether wolf or not. So for now, I'm agreeing with Pitch, it's too flimsy and I'm not going to suspect her for that, when also considering the rest of her participation. It's not like she has been giving us updated vote tallies the entire time.

Still defending Sally

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Very short day for me today again...too much on my platter at the moment, but I will say...

Nogrod, just because there was only one kill again last night, doesn't mean you are now automatically innocent. That one kill still makes you look suspicious in my eyes, the difference is now we know not to lynch someone based on those reasons alone. I'll be watching and waiting for your slip, be afraid, be very afraid.

I wonder if I can read through before I have to leave?

Oh and this is going to be a complete flip-flop from what I said about Nogrod, but I think it would be wise to check the Nogrod guard votes from yesterday. There was a pretty good wagon there and if the wolves were looking to set him up, as they did Legate, maybe check the Legate guard votes from Day 1? That's all I got to offer right now, my apologies for bumming around.

Thinks that even though we know not to trust the NG we should still look at Nog.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Fair enough, for me I don't see the purpose because Eonwe has repeatedly said he's not giving any mod hints, maybe it was a slip, but why blow it up to that extent? Did you really expect something like "Yep, you got me, I made a slip."

Oh well, I will ask you as now I do think it's relevant, how would knowing alona's role now change who it is you go after? Alona hasn't said anything.

NG Votes for Legate (Day 1):

Brinn
Nerwen
Shasta
Nogrod
Lommy
wilwa

(Italics be the dead innocents)

NG Votes for Nogrod (Day 2):

Greenie
Pitch
McCaber
wilwa
Nessa
Inzil
Hakon

That's interesting, the only repeated name is wilwa. I would also like to point out from Pitch on down to Hakon was just pretty much a large guard Nogrod wagon. With Legate there really wasn't a wagon, it was pretty split between guarding me or Legate.

Not sure if that says anything, but I think those who specifically said they were guarding Legate to figure out whether he was a wolf look pretty suspicious (who they are I can't tell you off the top of my head, I'm actually going to have to go back and look...which means hopefully it will come later).

I'm also not liking how wilwa's name keeps popping up in the middle of shady activity, like the Day 1 stuff between her and Mnemo, and Mnemo is now dead. Now her name being the only repeated one in the two NG votes. Or maybe that just means we have wolves who are trying to distance themselves from eachother and spread out? hmmm

Worried about Wilwa and how she keeps popping up in suspicious activity.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Ahh, and I'll be away until 2 or 3-ish my time, so there best be some real good analysis that I can come back to.

And ye wolves were probably most unwise to leave me alive this long ha, I gave you the chance to kill me early when I was exhausted. Now the fire's been lit and it will be most difficult to lynch me, you'd be sure to regret it because it would be your end.

Hmmmm…..

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Yes, maybe something along the lines of a person who can cause the sun to rise, thus ending the wolves night activities early if said person picks a number 1-6 and it is the same number the Mayor has rolled. The Mayor is a gambler right? That would be awesome...mind you this is just my random speculation.

Going through Inzil's posts now (thanks wilwa...but gotta say still suspect ye

Interesting thoughts on special roles

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Random Thought 1.1

I don't think the wolves would seek to guard themselves. Why would vote to guard their fellows. Why would they seek to remove one of their own from the night time discussions? Wouldn't they desire to have full input from their fellows.

We know they found the way to beat the guard votes, but I can't see wolves seeking to NG one of their own, unless if there was no choice and it was a throw away to mislead us...But because of Inzil's guard votes, I'm inclined to think Pitch is innocent, and Nogrod probably too, but there is more doubt since that bandwagon made it pretty clear Nogrod would be protected.

Still it wouldn't make sense for wolves to want to NG eachother, especially a Nogwolf, he would not want to be silenced during the night.

One little thing about Shasta that bothers me and I didn't get a chance to bring up, when he said this towards Legate.

I don't like those types of suspicions, because it relies on certain words people use, and we all have common words or phrases we recycle. Just because we say I'd like to "see" more from this person or "watch" them doesn't mean we are saying "Hi. Im the seer!" Legate's usage of "us innocents" or identifying with the innocents shouldn't point to any one's wolvery or not, it's a very common thing to say in this game.

Ok, I didn't believe Legate, because I didn't find it conceivable that the wolves would not take advantage of their 2-kills...obviously I was wrong (and so did everyone else who decided to vote Legate)...but suspecting Legate in the way Shasta did, pointing out a common phrase many of us use looks bad. So, Shasta, whatcha got to say for yourself?

Doesn’t think the wolves would want to guard themselves even though we can no longer trust the NG results. He thinks they would want to be able to plot with each other. Suspicious of Shasta.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Usually I would never stick my neck out for Nerwen, because I never get a good read on her, and hence never ever trust her, but I think I will now. This read maybe the best I ever get on her, and I'm feeling innocent...if not congrats Nerwen.

She's already made this point about Inzil, but you can say the same thing with Kitanna too. There was no indication that when Nerwen voted Kitanna was going to be lynched. If Kitanna felt she was in big danger of getting lynched, she would have revealed...she wouldn't have liked it, but she would have had to reveal.

Since it was Day 1, you could argue my 2nd vote made her a viable lynch option...fine. But take note that I was after Kitanna from the get go and any of the reasons against her were people bandwagoning onto my susicions. And that bandwagon really started against her once she left and Inzil hopped onto my suspicions.

I also think Pitch looks better than wilwa because even though wilwa could argue she was merely trying to save herself, she's also done a bang up job at being involved in the other wagons. Add on top of that Pitch's post where he says people should take a look at me (that of which I am much appreciated for because it made me aware of how crappy I've been playing and I need to get my rear in gear), but suddenly when I announce my suspicions on wilwa, she fires back latching onto Pitch's points suddenly saying the "re-reading" of my posts gave her a different feeling.

Defending Nerwen, thinks Pitch looks better than Wilwa.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Snappy, yes, because I'm finding out I'm having only about 2 hours a day, total to be on read everything and then post. The way I normally like to do things hasn't been possible.

But, I'm not sure how I have been "sniffing the mood." I've said my suspicions are Shasta and Wilwa, and I said why. Plus currently Nog, Pitch, and Nerwen look innocent. The rest I'm unsure, because I really haven't given much thought towards them. How is announcing suspicions and the ones I feel innocent about "sniffing the mood?" I thought that was the purpose of this thing.

[lynch vote]++wilwa[/lynch vote]

because I said so...and

++Guard Nilp

also, because I said so.

Votes for Wilwa to lynch and Nilp to guard. He also defends himself.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

11 people left, 3 are wolves and I would be the rest of my savings that wilwa is one of them.

Still after Wilwa.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Hmm something else Nogrod said that I thought I commented on, but for some reason it didn't show up and now I can't find it.

Basically it's when Nog said he feels guilty for not trying enough so far, and then basically getting a free pass, which funny enough I feel like I'm in the same boat. It's really eerie to not have anyone challenging me to do better, when I really have done nothing at all. Well, except wilwa who just did today and makes her look a better to me, but at this point, I've done no analysis on anyone, and absolutely nothing, so I'm more or less just playing randomly and un-Borolike. The fact that no one is directly calling me out on it is scary...well again excluding wilwa who just did today.

I’ve commented on this already.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

[lynch vote]++Pitchwife[/lynch vote]

No particular reason at all other than I feel uncomfortable about his post on Day 2 that laid out reasons to suspect me. It made me feel he was innocent, but then Inzil chose to quote Pitch and defend me. Maybe 2-wolves working together, and Pitch was defensive of Inzil.

Now Inzil did vote to guard Pitch, but that was the 1st vote for Pitch and it was a 3-way tie with Shasta and Nerwen. I mean on that day it only took 3 votes.

This unsettles me. His very first post of the day and he says he would bet all his money that Wilwa is a wolf. He doesn’t post anything of substance and then he votes for someone different. Creepy.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

++Guard Nogrod

Trust him more than anyone else at this point, or maybe just have a more solid read on/ability to read than the rest.

So I don’t think I’ve formed a conclusive enough opinion of Boro but he looks a little fishy. Right now I don’t know if that fishy-ness if wolvery but it is still something to keep our eyes on.