[Brinniel]

It seems to start with Boromir who said this in one post:

Originally Posted by Boro

I would prefer Ilya, Gollum, or Cailin, over Strongbow, sally, or Shasta, as far as submarines. [...]

I think Ilya is more likely to be a wolf than the other two I mentioned in the first sentence. It's arguable as to whether she's really submarine though, because she's posted the most out of them, but she's a submarine in the sense that she's going rather unnoticed.

As helpful as her quoting has been, it scares me, because it reminds me of so much of Brinn's strategy in The Republic. She did admit that's what she thought when posting, but I'm still not convinced she's entirely innocent. Also, I'm scratching my head as to what she saw from me to suspect Mac. Maybe it was from yesterday? The "oh and what Boro said about you too" is just - well suspicious.

On the flip side, Ilya would probably be the riskiest choice, and that is she will be participating more so than the other submarines. But, her behavior today seems to fit more with a Cobbler who could be posting a bunch of stuff and really not say anything about it. Plus saying some things that really don't make sense. Or a critic who saw how successful Brinn was with this strategy and tried the same.

Five minutes later, Fea lists who she's concerned about:

Originally Posted by Fea

Concerned
Boro
Ilya
Gwath

Aganzir considers voting Ilya, though she's slightly hesitant:

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I'd rather vote Ilya than Bowie although voting either of them would feel unfair as I don't have much of an idea about them.

Then comes Mac who gives a whole post suspecting Ilya:

Originally Posted by Mac

Some thoughts on Ilya, who recently rised in my suspicions.

Compare #195 to #223: First she doesn't know where the Nogrod case came from, then she says other people put suspicions against Nogrod (and Menel) in her mind and thus keeps herself out of the vote-fray. Also, first she considers voting Gollum for his case against Strongbow, then she votes Strongbow herself.

Today, while I appreciate all the work she put into all her quote-collections, I'm a bit unhappy with it because there's not much of her own opinions, which I consider more helpful about summary-posts than the summary. She does give her opinions later, but they are kind of simplistic putting-into-boxes like.

In #324 she defends Gwath in a not too convincing manner, which, since I'm suspicious of Gwath, makes me suspicious of her, too. There's also her point against me, which does not make a lot of sense, as Boro remarked, too.

If Ilya should be evil, I think a close look at Brinn might be justified - there seems to be a connection.

Fea comments:

Originally Posted by Fea

Mac, you're my hero, it was Ilya's quotes that set me off.

I'll explain soon.

Kath rushes in with comment about everyone, but votes Ilya:

Originally Posted by Kath

Ilya - says Agan and Lariren started the suspicions against Nog. Has done nothing but post quotes. Now that can be helpful, but not when we get none of her own comments in there. Did post with her thoughts, but there is some really odd reasoning behind them. Why would killing phantom be something Strongbow would want to do over anyone else? If Lariren was 'just kind of agreeing' and then changed direction then why is that suspicious? It just feels suspicious. What was that about a 48 Day, as we didn't have one the Day before why would she assume it?

++ILYA

I'd like to have gone through a bit more thoroughly but from what I've seen so far I think that posting all the quotes and the voting tally is trying to look helpful while actually not being and that the reasoning behind her suspicions seems very odd.

Mac makes his vote:

Originally Posted by Mac

I sense the danger of a last-minute bandwaggon against me, but since I can retract my vote if necessary, I'll vote now:

++Ilya

Clearly my top suspect right now, and there seems to be an actual chance to lynch her today, so no reason to hesitate for me.

(One thing: Why did he worry a last-minute bandwagon would go against him? The only one I saw who suspected him was Aganzir. Nervous much?)

Agan votes:

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I think I'm voting

++Ilya

too. Besides if her role is revealed I'll have some actual evidence concerning Mac.

Fea builds a case against Ilya:

Originally Posted by Fea

I was flipped out by Ilya's quote lists mostly because when I see quotes in anything I'm reading, I have a nasty habit of skipping them, because most of the time when something I read has a quoted off section like that, it's written in a language I don't know. Consequently, posts that consist almost entirely of quotes tend to completely throw me off because

1) the person looks like they're making points, but in reality they're just copy/pasting other people's out-of-context comments

2) my brain is conditioned to all but ignore them anyway (this is probably a trait singular to me, as it's caused by reading massive amounts of art and lit theory).

Basically, when I saw the lists of quotes, I harkened back to Freshman Writing Class and thought "Okay, so you filled up page space. What's your point?" I was bothered that Ilya didn't have an argument that she was supporting, instead it seemed like she was just organizing.

Which while I admit that I OCD adore organizing, I kept waiting and waiting for some sort of reasoning as to what Ilya actually thought, as opposed to what Ilya's organization skills are.

I was thrown off wholly by having to sit my way through what felt like a lot of carefully wasted space without having the payoff of Ilya actually giving us anything personal to go on.

It's like judging the opinion of somebody who's reading a script, you know? I want your own words, not somebody else's.

Probably why I write the stuff I do, and ignore the stuff with MLA citations...

I apologize that this looks like a bandwagon last minute, but I'm also not willing to cause a double lynch (or even get close) today by voting Gwath (plus I don't have time to substantiate any arguments)

so

++Ilya

Boromir votes:

Originally Posted by Boro

There will be at least another. I was with-holding for reasons I don't care to explain, as it seems unecessary now.

++Ilya

The Ilya bandwagon occurred in the last hour and a half...and some of it seems artificial to me. At least one evil player was involved, I'm sure, if not more.

Boromir looks the most innocent of those. He's the first to consider Ilya, and his thought process looks genuine as he brings up both the ups and downs of voting her.

Fea is quick to echo anyone who suspects Ilya, then builds a huge case against her at the last-minute in an effort to justify her vote. Seems suspicious to me.

Aganzir suddenly considers Ilya after everyone else does. On one hand, the fact that she's more hesitant makes her look more innocent. But then again, she could easily be bluffing since she knows any hesitation might make her look better.

Mac is the first to dedicate a whole post against Ilya. I would say his jumping the bandwagon look most suspicious of the bunch.

Kath is the first to actually vote Ilya, but only after suspicion against her has already begun. I'd say she looks more innocent because she was obviously in a rush when making the post; I don't know how much of the current discussion she had in mind at the time. Also, she didn't know deadline had been extended 15 minutes.

PS: Mith, we all truly apologise for the whole vote. We really weren't trying to upset you.

EDIT: X-posted