Quote:
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Gentlemen (especially SoN), this was exactly what I didn't want to see in this topic. Everyone can just sweep interesting topic off of the table like this.~Legate
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I'm going to agree with
SoN on this one. I wouldn't call it 'sweeping an interesting topic' under the table, I would say in this particular instance with the 'express train' you are looking too far into the quote and overthinking it. (Just my opinion though
).
For whatever reason it was technological advancement in Middle-earth is pretty much stagnant compared to our own technological advancements. Centuries and whole millenias pass by in Tolkien's story, yet there is very little advancement in technology. For instance, chainmail never progressed to plate mail (all that we see is Imrahil has
'metal vambrances'). There are no crossbows...etc. Besides the appearance of gunpowder (in Gandalf's fireworks and Saruman's 'bombs') advancement in technology (in Middle-earth) is virtually stagnant.
Tolkien was very specific about what he wanted in his story...he endlessly criticized Zimmerman in
Letter 210 about adding things in his story that did not belong (tomatoes in the Shire, glass windows...and so on), and for whatever reason kept advancement in technology to pretty much nil.
So, as far as an express train is concerned, I agree with
davem and
SoN, and the idea that there was an express train somewhere in Middle-earth is just a
'bridge too far' and you're looking too far into things. As the quotes are not literal but figuritive to set up imagery. Just as there are times (in The Lord of the Rings and his other stories) when Tolkien is having his characters 'speak' to us, there are times when the author is speaking to us. If Frodo (or Bilbo) said such and such was like an 'express train' than I can see there being some argument, but the bottom line is both quotes appear in the narration of the author, not the characters.
With that being said, that doesn't mean this discussion has to end, because there are things that exist in Middle-earth that appear in two very different places at different times in our world. For some examples, how about clocks in Middle-earth? Or tea-time? (and doing a search you can find great threads on both) For those are both quite odd and out of place. Middle-earth was not set at one specific period of time according to our own 'real history.' It is a mesh, a mixing pot, of numerous items, things, cultural beliefs...etc which appear at varying times in our history. And Tolkien was quite specific about what belonged in Middle-earth, and what didn't, and he virtually kept advancement in Middle-earth stagnant.
I just think this example of the express train is being read into a bit too much. That doesn't mean this can't be (and isn't already) an interesting thread.
