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Old 12-11-2006, 01:46 PM   #7
Lush
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Narya

Oooh, controversy!

Quote:
I'm not sure that we should call Tokien a "classist" but he was certainly a hopeless romantic, hankering after a golden age from the past which never existed.
You might catch flak for the above statement, Selmo, so I am going to preempt all that by saying I agree. The word "romantic" may be problematic - but I find that Tolkien often longs for the mythical picturesque, particularly within power structures. This is why Sam lovingly refers to Frodo as "Mr. Frodo," and never appears to buckle under the weight of his subservience. When Sam is tempted by the Ring - I almost see that as Tolkien's way of highlighting the potential dangers of threatening the hierarchy. As in, "look at our dear, sweet Sam, look at what he would turn into."

Of course, we must also remember the very nature of the Ring - it implies a tyrannical master of great power, a supremely negative figure.

So I do believe that Tolkien had a distinction in mind - there is "good" class structure, and "bad" class structure in the books. The Orcs serve Sauron out of fear and terror, while Sam, we are lead to believe, does so out of love (right?).

Quote:
Yes, Tolkien was born in the late 19th century. He was born into a world that had already seen the work of Marx, a world in which the stirrings of class-revolution were already visible in many places in Europe. The world in which he grew up was a very modern one in many respects; it was certainly one that did not take notions of class-structure for granted. Tolkien was aware of all this and he still chose to portray class-structures as he did. I'm not saying that he was necessarily wrong to do so; but I do not think that the views of class presented in LotR can be put down to it being written a long time ago.
Indeed. I believe that Tolkien, like any intelligent man, had a complex perspective on the entire thing. On one side, you had an abused under-class, on the other side, the violent excess of Bolshevik Russia. I'd be fascinated to find out more on his thoughts here (anyone have any letters they can cite? ).
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