The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - LOTR

Aiwendil · 12-11-2006, 08:23 AM

No time for a thoughtful post right now - but I'm afraid I cannot be as dismissive of the charge of 'classism' as LMP and Selmo are.

Yes, Tolkien was born in the late 19th century. He was born into a world that had already seen the work of Marx, a world in which the stirrings of class-revolution were already visible in many places in Europe. The world in which he grew up was a very modern one in many respects; it was certainly one that did not take notions of class-structure for granted. Tolkien was aware of all this and he still chose to portray class-structures as he did. I'm not saying that he was necessarily wrong to do so; but I do not think that the views of class presented in LotR can be put down to it being written a long time ago.

Nor, I think, can one say that Tolkien was not interested in modern political theory and leave it at that. It's true that he did not much care for many things post-1500 or so. But this is avoiding the question. Why did he not like things post-1500? And, specifically, why did he choose to portray and even glorify the class structures that he did? One would hardly excuse a proponent of slavery by saying "he doesn't much like developments since 1865"; and while I think the charge made here against Tolkien is far less serious, it should still not be thus dismissed.

12-11-2006, 08:23 AM	#4
Aiwendil Late Istar Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,224	No time for a thoughtful post right now - but I'm afraid I cannot be as dismissive of the charge of 'classism' as LMP and Selmo are. Yes, Tolkien was born in the late 19th century. He was born into a world that had already seen the work of Marx, a world in which the stirrings of class-revolution were already visible in many places in Europe. The world in which he grew up was a very modern one in many respects; it was certainly one that did not take notions of class-structure for granted. Tolkien was aware of all this and he still chose to portray class-structures as he did. I'm not saying that he was necessarily wrong to do so; but I do not think that the views of class presented in LotR can be put down to it being written a long time ago. Nor, I think, can one say that Tolkien was not interested in modern political theory and leave it at that. It's true that he did not much care for many things post-1500 or so. But this is avoiding the question. Why did he not like things post-1500? And, specifically, why did he choose to portray and even glorify the class structures that he did? One would hardly excuse a proponent of slavery by saying "he doesn't much like developments since 1865"; and while I think the charge made here against Tolkien is far less serious, it should still not be thus dismissed.