Squatter... all threads start off as tangents [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
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But unfortunately, Tolkien's poetry always kind of got in the way of the story for me.
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Like a broken record, I find myself agreeing with PanMan, like I have on so many other threads. Its uncanny… I’m beginning to think the chap is a long lost relative or something. Actually I could quote the whole of PanMan’s post, so complete is my agreement. In my constant re-readings of LotR, I find myself even skipping over much of the poetry, mainly because I’ve read it before, much of it doesn’t appeal to me, and it does, at least for me, “put the plot on hold.” That, however, is my subjective assessment of Tolkien’s poetry. I’m in agreement with Squatter and others, who point out that subjective assessment of poetry makes comparison almost impossible. For example, my favorite poet is Gerald Manly Hopkins, but at the same time, I also enjoy Jewel’s poetry with almost as much enthusiasm. Much is in the eye of the beholder (no, Squatter, I’m not referring to a floating one-eyed beast [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] ).
But, does Tolkien objectively compare with Yeats? Of course not! In Tolkien’s defense, the
vast majority of his poetry is in character, especially the drinking songs, the bath song, the ent’s marching song, and so forth. Rarely are such things originally written by “the masters”, but they spontaneously emerge from the experiences of common people, for common purposes, or for
common fun. Attempting to compare this with Yeats is simply missing the point. Its like criticizing
Blues Clues as trivial drivel in comparison to
Law and Order. I suspect Tolkien wouldn’t consider himself one of “the masters” anyway, nor do I think he would claim such personal prestige for himself or his work, be it poetry or prose. I would go even further, and say Tolkien would be too humble to even disagree with the author of the above article.
However, this does bring up one of my pet peeves with Tolkien fans. The first instinct is too attack the author of the above article, even though some of his points are valid. From a purely objective standpoint, leaving out our subjective feelings for these poems, and placing them in isolation from the prose, Tolkien’s poetry in general, especially his “serious” poetry, such as the Lay of Lúthien, doesn’t hold a candle to poetry by writers such as Tennyson or Hopkins or even (dare I say it) Frost. Tennyson far surpasses Tolkien in capturing the human condition and emotive force; Hopkins far surpasses Tolkien in his artistic rendering of the English language; and Frost far surpasses Tolkien in his command of meaningful meter and rhyme.
However, this really means nothing. First of all, Tolkien’s poetry was never intended to be read in isolation from his prose, and even the Lay of Lúthien is part of a greater epic history. That really is the error of the above author; attempting to read Tolkien’s poetry out of context is grossly unfair. However, aside from this, how can one seriously contend, Tolkien fan or not, that Tolkien’s poetry is as good as Yeats, Tennyson or Hopkins? Intelligent discussion about Tolkien’s work demands that we see his work and accept it for what it is. Just because I happen to think that Chesterton and Newman wrote better prose than Tolkien, doesn’t mean that I think Tolkien was a hack! Such a judgement doesn’t mean that I would prefer to read Chesterton or Newman instead of Tolkien; in fact, the exact opposite is the case. If Tolkien, himself, didn’t attempt to usurp such prestige, why should we Tolkien fans attempt to force such lauds on his work? This, I think, may have been the point that the above author was attempting to make, albeit in a somewhat crass manner.
Is Tolkien's corpus the greatest work of fiction of the century? Looking at what he accomplished, taking all the material in context, and just considering the immensity of the work and its appeal… Yip. And this is guaranteed to gull literary critics for generations to come. Does this mean that Tolkien is the best poet and author to ever live? Oh, heck no!… and that for some reason seems to gull many Tolkien fans.
Edit: changed "Is Tolkien the greatest author of the century?" to "Is Tolkien's corpus the greatest work of fiction of the century?"
[ February 21, 2003: Message edited by: Bill Ferny ]